Update - where’s the new Guardian Soulmates?

[Snowfish79]

Having stumbled upon the above topic via dear Google…. I wonder if any wise and informed persons have an answer?

I may be shot for being a boy, in a girls’ place…. Please make it quick 🙏🏻

Definitely one that calls themselves a Nice Guy and can’t understand why they’re perpetually single.

Oh. I see.

No, I’m one of the those “are you ok?” twats. One of the twats that people tend to ‘open up’ to, one of the twats who people tend to come to in times of need. That kind of twat.

The kind of twat who’s never called anyone ‘love’.

The kind of twat that finds the majority of people on mainstream dating apps, who have zero perception skills or empathy, who are into tattoos and gym, are ‘apolitical’, expect a guy to pay on a date but get offended when a door is held open for them…. Not for him.

You must be one of ‘those twats’

I know why I am currently single. The same reason that a certain group of women are also single. Reasons that you wouldn’t be able to get your head round so don’t worry yourself about it 😘😘

If you don’t like it, why don’t YOU leave? Just a thought

Well as a woman who is single I don’t think there is a certain reason for said singledom. Unless you want to clarify, I’m sure I can get my little female head around it without much worry.

Ok. I didn’t say ‘little’ and I didn’t say ‘female’. Yes; I was patronising, but I’m sure you can understand that someone making ‘I can see why you’re single’ type comments when they don’t know me is also patronising.

So you asked - ok. I live in a VERY rural area. I used to work for an international design school (for postgraduate students, not a ‘school’ how we would know it). Most of my social life was connected to work, and I had several relationships via people I met through work. Being mostly with international people, I think less emphasis is put on ‘buzz words’ - people are ‘judged’ more on who they are and how they behave.

Anyway, the school closed, and I am unable to relocate, which leaves me in a location where there are simply very few people. Even fewer under retirement age. So, I simply don’t meet many new people. It’s not that I meet people who think I’m an idiot and don’t want to date me

And…. I lead what I guess could be called a ‘very non-mainstream life’. Which I guess was what I was referring to by the ‘certain group’ of women.

I'll bite. Go on then...

See above 🙂

But what's the "certain group of women" though? Feels like your implying something but I can't work out what.

There are loads of dating sites specifically for people living rurally, but maybe you're too very non mainstream for those? What a predicament.

OK, you've worn me down.
I'll go on a date with you but only if you promise not to speak.

As in women who are ‘less mainstream’ - if that makes sense. I wasn’t meaning to imply anything

Are there? I wasn’t aware of that. I think I tried a few things in the past, but the reality was that there are inevitably about three people on there in a fifty mile radius! Mostly because that’s the reality.

I gather from others that it’s also tricky in the city as the percentage of the population that they are interested to meet us similar. But of course there are simply more people.

Sounds perfect. Will you also not speak?

Sorry, just realised it's because I put a full stop on the end - try https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights

Essentially, sex is about biology. Gender is about stupid sexist stereotypes.

Thanks for that. The link worked - but wow! Thousands of pages!

Thanks for your summary. I am not stupid, and I wasn’t trying to be ‘clever’ - simply didn’t want to get people’s backs up. I am still confused to be honest…. There are males and females (biologically) but then there are people who’ve altered their anatomies…. And people who haven’t, but ‘identify’ as a different gender - which may be male or female or something else…. And that’s even if I have got that bit right?

And then I upset people here by using ‘female’ - unintentionally. And ‘girl’ has been covered!

What’s a ‘cover all’? Males and females would upset I fear? Men and women excludes anyone who identifies as something else? All genders updates someone else…. Again - I’m not trying to be clever.

It is easy for people to be offended by a word, maybe less easy to say the right thing that’s right for everyone.

I have a female friend who is adamant that it’s people’s own choice to be offended or not. I’m not sure I agree, but I see the argument. And, I think the intention is much more important than the word in a lot of cases - some older people for example who would use out of date words for non white people, for example - they might be using a word that is now considered racist - it doesn’t mean they are a racist.

Men and women is fine, men being the male sex & women the female sex. This thread is a good place to start.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Thanks for that. Men and women will work fine!

I read one person’s post on the thread…. That was sufficient! I am more than happy for people to do as they wish (with reasonable parameters)….. I think any expectation that the general population fully gets to grips with all the terminology is unrealistic 😂

Ok.
Learn about sexism, what life is like for the interesting/thoughtful/blah blah women, what MRA is any why it's massively worrying, about language and how unbalanced we are in what women should say, how men take up vastly (2/3rds) more talking time than women at work yet women are seen as the talkative be ones, how an assertive woman is aggressive but an assertive man is, well, assertive. How women are over and over expected by men to service and enable men in effect to
Mirror them back and reflect them to themselves at twice their actual size, to praise and show gratitude for basic humanity, household tasks, child care, acts of equality

Women in this thread have refused to do any of this for you, and you've baulked at it, found it uncomfortable, been confused by it. Which exactly is the point. Man - perfectly decent bloke in his own estimation, indeed one of the better ones - asks women for advice and help. Women are already fed up with supporting and helping men over and over, so are testy. His mode of asking indicates he is blind to his readership. When it's pointed out that he is blind in this way, he flusters about unintentional innocent misuse of language. You have no idea how many of us have had this kind of shit from men - "hello love, mind if I join you" "I'm not your love" "ooh unfriendly aren't you, it's just a word, no need to be so rude". Or "I met this really bright girl at work today" " girl? Under 18 then?" " no obviously she's an adult, it's only a word don't be so sensitive" when the man has totally failed to understand, inform himself, about the power of words as used about and against women, about the attitudes and biases and discriminations that are evident in such "innocent" words.

There's shit tons you can read about and almost all of it will make you think, challenge you and frankly , make you far more interesting to most women.

Start with Deborah Tannen on language.
Or the Authority Gap. Look at The Everday Sexism website. Read up on trans and why this is such a massive issue for women, maybe start with Helen Joyce's book.

Ok I'm done.

This should be pinned on every notice board in every company. Thank you. You’ve said what I couldn’t articulate.

Thanks for that, an interesting read and a pleasant change of tone.

I had to google MRA - hadn’t a clue what it was. And now I know, I can confirm I find the idea repugnant. I am not one of ‘these men’ that you speak about. I realise that may not have been clear. I am tired of having all sorts of assumptions made about me and insults levelled at me - as I am sure many of the women here are tired of being triggered by shit behaviour by men.

I think it would be a lot easier and more constructive if people could discuss these matters kindly - yes, I was defensive - but I was attacked. Which has nothing to do with sex.

The woman who has commented on your post has made so many comments, told me to F off, called me a twat etc - and others too. This kind of behaviour only makes things worse, sadly.

Slightly different to telling me to F off and calling me a twat 🤷🏻‍♂️

Oh. I meant to ask - in all seriousness, how do you think I could have reacted better to the comments made against me?

That said, I guess I shouldn’t be asking. There’s a problem here though; I get that some women may feel that men are constantly asking them things and they aren’t happy with that - but if you (women) are saying something isn’t ok, and when I (for example) ask how I can behave differently - if your response is essentially ‘I’m not telling you, because men always want all the answers from us’ - it’s…. Well, a problem? Isn’t it?

People have chosen to come on here and criticise me - I didn’t ask them to - so it seems not unreasonable that having chosen to criticise, that they then don’t want to stay to ‘help’. I mean, if I say to someone at work ‘you’re doing that task all wrong’ - and then refuse to tell them how to do it right?!? That’s daft. Or is it a case of ‘you really should know how to do that, it’s not for me to tell you, go find out’ ?! 🤷🏻‍♂️

Also (I’m not trying to contradict what you wrote, just giving some other perspectives) - the thing about men always asking women …. Maybe I’ve not really seen that? Or I’m blind to it?! I mean in my life, I feel that I ask for various advice or help from various people for various things - and I don’t think it’s related to sex? Most of my friends are women, and they will also ask me for advice or opinions or help with things. It feels pretty even; but of course I could be missing something.

Lastly; I get the issue over the word use. I have never ever called a woman ‘love’ in the way you mentioned, and that’s clearly crap. BUT we all know an older lady in a chippy shop calls everyone ‘love’ - and that’s very different. Yes, I probably have used the word ‘girl’ in the way you suggest - ‘I met a nice girl’ …. and I can see why that’s problematic. I would use it in an affectionate kind of way, but I can totally see that it could have a derogatory meaning. Female friends of mine will say though that they have ‘met a nice boy’ in a light kind of way and I don’t see any issue with that - maybe others would. Also I guess the words ‘boyfriend’ and ‘girlfriend’ are not helpful in trying to separate the use of these words?!

Maybe we need more words too? I would likely use ‘girl’ for a young woman, where if it were a man I might use ‘lad’? “The new clerk in the bank didn’t have a clue what they were doing, I felt sorry for them, it was just a young girl / young lad” …. Clearly neither scenario is referring to a child. Can we use ‘lass’ in lieu of ‘lad’? I suspect not.

I still think intention and context are relevant.

Thanks again for making those points in a kind way. (I gather there’s an issue with ‘kind’ too - but I don’t get it!)