To want a way to label the reasonable fear of the variety of Islam that wishes to impose Sharia law?

[Oodiks]

I understand that there are different sects within Islam and that while some pose no concerns, others do. I am horrified at the type of Sharia law imposed in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan, which denies women human rights, but it's hard to talk about those reasonable fears without being labelled Islamophobic. It's not unreasonable to fear a religion that imposes such harsh lives on women.

Completely agree. Not just fear, actively dislike.
I detest all religions and the awful treatment of women with varying levels of control and abuse appalls me.

Surely its not the religion you 'fear' (which is a strange term to use anyway, but I'll go with it), but the regime or implementation of laws/rules within a country

And who cares if you're 'labelled' this phobic or that phobic, Ive long since past caring about being called phobic or 'ist', its just a way to shut people up.

I dont have time for any regime, culture, religion, creed, race, political viewpoint, whatever, that wants to run an inhumane system.

I have seen the word Islamophobia misused so many times. We don’t have to swallow abhorrent ways or bow to ‘cultural differences’. No religion or culture is beyond criticism. It’s 2024 and I feel like we are being dragged back to the dark ages at times.

Sharia law has no place in 2024. Or any year for that matter.

It's not the religion you fear but the people imposing an extreme version of that religion. This happens with all religions, including Christianity. Of course no sane person supports the insane control of women perpetrated in Iran and Afghanistan - moderate Muslims included.

I've never seen it this used for anyone expressing a reasonable fear of extremism. No one would call anyone Islamophobic for saying 'The Taliban are horrific'. They would justifiably call you Islamophobic for saying 'We'll end up under Sharia law if we keep letting in people from Muslim countries'.

There is a difference between criticising/fearing that (which as PPs have said, has parallels in Christian extremism, which is also awful) and between talking about all Islam as though it's all extremism, or as though respecting Islam is a slippery slope to extreme Sharia law, which too many people do. See American right wingers who rant about Sadiq Khan as though he is an extremist for literally no other reason than his is Muslim.

Actually people have said that criticism of Hamas comes from Islamophobia. So it does get misused and bandied about. Apparently if you highlight that Hamas are terrorists and just as violent and unhinged as the current Israeli strategy, you're racist and Islamophobic. Read any thread here about it.

Oh here we go again, another thread about Islam, how Muslims want to impose Sharia law blah blah yawn.

Christopher Hitchens: “Islamophobia: a word created by fascists, and used by cowards, to manipulate morons.”

You'd better get used to it OP because it's coming to the UK eventually

I think the problem with any religion which ends up with a reputation is that it happens because it tends to be the extremists who stand out, and the “normal” religious people just carry on with their lives like the rest of us.

So e.g. people will say that Christians are all pro life homophobic bigots because those are the Christians we see shouting from the rooftops, and the rest want no part in it so aren’t heard.

Similarly people accuse all Muslims of being terrorists who want Sharia law based on the fact there is a minority who will shout it from the rooftops while the rest just live their lives like everyone else.

And so it goes on.

We need to look at the people rather than what they say. if someone tells me that being gay/a single parent is a sin and I’m going to hell then I judge the person. They just use religion to justify their point, if they say it in the name of God then people will say that “Christians believe that…” rather than that “Mick from down the road believe that…” iyswim?

In Afghanistan etc Sharia law is actual law and they are all rightly worthy of judgement, and that seems to apply to all men of that country, so it’s easy to say that Afghani Muslims believe in Sharia law. Whereas Ahmed down the road who believes in Sharia law is an individual unto himself, and all the other Ahmeds, and any other Muslims are just Muslims. Iyswim.

I don't know why the Muslim religion attracts so many extremists...because on its own it's peaceful religion...not feminist but not violent. But with all the calls to Jihad, Sharia law...it is now something people fear. If even 40% of people In Gaza support Hamas, that is a lot of people following an extremist ideology and it will take a lot to get to peace from that start point for example.

Is "fear" the right word? I certainly don't feel fear of that particular brand of Islam here in the UK. I probably would if I lived in Iran or Afghanistan etc but I don't.

I feel dreadfully concerned for the women who are being impacted by these dreadful regimes but I don't perceive any threats to my way of life from Muslims living here in the UK.

If you live in the UK it's not a reasonable fear at all.

If you live in the US, it'd be reasonable to fear Christanity being weaponised against women in a very similar way to what happens in Muslim countries.

If you just identified as 'feminist' it would be very clear to most people that you were opposed to any legal framework that treated women as second class citizens, whatever religious beliefs are being used as an excuse to create that system. But please don't use that word if you aren't actually prepared to let women who live in places like Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia tell you what they want their lives to be like.

What are your reasons for this fear? I've never met a muslim in this country that would like to apply sharia law. In the same way I do not come across many extremely orthodox Christians or Jews in this country. We are a fairly Liberal country.

This is a particular subsection .., like there is a subsection in Judaism that don’t let men & women mix, or touch hands etc, or subsections in Christianity that don’t want you to have a blood transfusion, and others that keep women’s heads covered

This subsection won’t allow women any agency at all.

We have had it in the neck from sections of all religions…yet again Men controlling women under the auspices of “religion” or “culture”. It’s just misogyny.

They call it “modesty” it’s not, it’s control ..and it immediately judges other who don’t follow the rules as immodest.

It didn’t used to be like that, Muslim women in the Uk were not covered as they sometimes are now, nor where the ladies in Iran or Saudi.. it all started in the late 70s

But as I say, plenty of areas of other religions force women to cover, force segregation, and limit the life choices of women & girls.

I think it is unreasonable to fear it from your safe home presumably in the UK. Be concerned for the women effected, be supportive of the women effected but it's not about you and making it about you seems wrong tbh.

We do have Sharia law in the UK, I think we have 30 councils who mainly deal with financial and family matters.

They're not legally binding and can't do anything against UK law. Like any religious council, they're sexist and mainly run by men.

I don't want any religious councils in the UK and believe people should abide by Western values irrespective of their religion or culture.

It’s not religion, it’s certain usually male leaders abusing religion as a tool to control a population. So your fear is of theocrats or of a theocracy.

Theocrats are akin to autocrats or dictators.

"'We'll end up under Sharia law if we keep letting in people from Muslim countries'."

I'm interested that you say this statement is Islamophobic, since it does haven some factual basis to it: polling has shown around 40% of British Muslims would like some form of Sharia law to apply in communities in the UK. Obviously that doesn't mean they want everyone living under Sharia law, but it does mean that if the number of British Muslims continues to grow, Sharia law in this country is a real possibility.

They would justifiably call you Islamophobic for saying 'We'll end up under Sharia law if we keep letting in people from Muslim countries'.

History is Islamophobic then

I am horrified at the type of Sharia law imposed in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan, which denies women human rights, but it's hard to talk about those reasonable fears without being labelled Islamophobic

Really? You’ve discussed being horrified at the regime in Iran and Saudi and people label it as Islamophobic? Somehow I doubt that.

There are some extremist Muslims in the UK who hide behind Islam to be homophobic, misogynistic and patriarchal limiting the rights of women, this is also seen in hardline Christmas groups and Hasidic Jews.

I think fearing sharia law will be placed on all UK citizens is crazy and unfounded though.

Really? You don’t think there are any Sharia councils in the uk? Hint: There are.

Like someone said above though I’m way beyond anyone accusing me of any isms. I really don’t care. Op can ask a question and if you’re offended make sure your defence isn’t completely ignorant of facts.

You’re right hazelnutvanillalatte Saudi Arabia was a place full of naice white people until they started letting Muslims in, now look at it.

I think climate change will increase the numbers of muslim migrants coming here and at some point the balance will tip towards a change of governance in the country in order to reflect the needs and wants of its citizens.