To want a way to label the reasonable fear of the variety of Islam that wishes to impose Sharia law?

[Oodiks]

I understand that there are different sects within Islam and that while some pose no concerns, others do. I am horrified at the type of Sharia law imposed in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan, which denies women human rights, but it's hard to talk about those reasonable fears without being labelled Islamophobic. It's not unreasonable to fear a religion that imposes such harsh lives on women.

What I would like to know are where are the counter demonstrations?

That’s a good point, but I guess the non extremist Muslims are frightened of repercussions and their families being targeted.

It’s exactly the same point though, Christian’s in the UK attempt to impose their own personal religious beliefs on policy and the day to day lives of others. The Muslims who want sharia law are doing it from the exact same perspective, one is just a more socially accepted religion in the uk though.

Either way the UK is a secular country and religious beliefs should be dictate law or the freedoms of others.

Yes to some extent

However no one is being intimidated by Christianity nowadays in the UK (hopefully) in the same way

'Center women as connected...'
Oh dear god
What bollocks

So you are concerned that a bunch of Muslims will become powerful enough to establish shariah law in Trump's America? I think that's a rather irrational fear as it is close to impossible.

@Kendodd Why aren't ordinary Muslims up in arms about demos like this and things like death threats to teachers. Why aren't they out on the streets having none of it?

People have jobs and lives to hold down. How often do they need to protest in order for it to be counted?
There were numerous counter protests in the wake of the violence that sprung off the back of Southport tragedy.
Walthamstow in particular had a large one, as did other areas in and outside London.

And here we go. The closing down and shutting up your debate OP begins. Anyone apparently who references Islam in any way other than a positive one is a Farage supporter. Such a tedious and lazy argument.

Again your view is very narrow, are you suggesting it is a wide spread issue of people are being intimidated by Islam in the UK and there are no similar issues with Christianity?

Christians were behaving so atrociously to women outside abortion and sexual health clinics that their demonstrations had to be made illegal, and that was only last year.

Same sex marriage only became legal in NI in 2020, before then gay people did not have the same rights in the UK as straight people and were outwardly intimidated in the name of Christianity for their “lifestyle”.

Islamophobia is the same as transphobia these days, just a way to shut down debate around issues that affect women

In my area recently there was a protest outside the home of a Muslim family who kept a puppy in the back garden 24/7 with nothing but a small wooden kennel and wet blankets. Dog shit everywhere. Never allowed in the house
RSPCA wouldn't do anything so a peaceful protest happened.

I was there from start to finish (when thw police seized the dog)

Next day there were multiple people saying it was islamaphobic, that people were chanting racist things, that the family were physically attacked and that the only reason so many people were there is because they hate Muslims 🤔

Non of that happened.

It was an animal welfare issue.

The same happens whenever anyone tries to discuss the parking outside mosque, it's suddenly about islamophobia and people wouldn't complain if it was a Christian church 🤔

Of course they would because it's about the cars on narrow roads not the ethnicity of thw people driving!

It just seems to me that tou can't make any justified criticism of Muslims now without being called racist

Seriously?
Lots of them attempt to intimidate women who are accessing the healthcare they're entitled to, in the UK.

🎅?

I’m surprised Christianity always gets a free pass in these discussions given that the Catholic Church STILL hasn’t taken accountability for all the child rape and the Magdalene laundries. These are recent phenomena that continue to destroy lives. They DO murder but in a less direct way. It’s only been 30 years 155 unmarked grave sod women were found in Ireland and the church shrugged and went “meh”

Exactly. Loads of white people (and non white) took to the streets in anti racism demos as a counter protest to the racist violence in Southport. Having a job didn't stop them. Ive been on many anti racist protests myself, going all the way back to the 1980s outside the South African embassy.

The 'UK go to Hell' Muslim protest though, tumbleweed from the wider Muslims community. Why aren't they on the streets 'not in my name' countering this ?

People are happy to give up their Saturdays to carry pictures of Swatstika and shout antisemitic genocidal chants through London. Maybe the same can protest about Iraq lowering the age of consent to 9

‘So much harm has been done by Christianity over the years. In the U.K. it’s evolved but you don’t have to go far back in history to see the harm done.’

Yes, those harms like suppressing concubinage and polygamy, and saying that marriage is a sacrament between one man and one woman, both consenting adults outside dangerous degrees of consanguinity. As for all that promotion of literacy, well, who needs to read and write when you can do chanting? Visiting the sick, giving alms to the poor, establishing hospitals and free schools, campaigning (successfully) against child labour and the slave trade, it’s all just so pernicious and, well, outright ‘harmful’.

‘What did the Romans do for us? ‘

Absolutely. Some appear to be unable to understand that.
I taught RE for 20 years in a multicultural school. Whilst I am not an expert on religions, I am informed enough to know that they have more in common than people think. The Golden Rule, being one of them, for example.
I think it is also very important to educate oneself on what is Sharia law , what it means and how it is interpreted and implemented in different countries.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/beliefs/sharia_1.shtml

This OP.
Fear and dislike of discriminatory, violent and natural rights suppressing regimes is nothing but common sense. If anyone gets offended and resort to calling names, well that is old now. They have worn those words by just casually throwing them around. They are meaningless these days.

But, it is not the religion, Islam, what you fear. It is a political take on it, islamism and islamists. Opposed to Islam and muslims.

The mingling of religion with politics has occurred all throughout history, including our christian nations in Europe. Separation between politics and religion works much better. Islamists do want to use Islam to push their agenda forward.
Now, most religions have the principle of all humans being equal, not killing others, charity and social fairness, amongst others, as core principles. Anything that claims the contrary is pushed by people who do not believe in God, but only in the power and money they get out of this. They will never recognise this, of course. They will dress the most modestly and pray the more. But they do not believe, at all.

Are they though (“free to take part”)?

If you’re a Muslim woman and insist on taking your divorce through the legal system, (because you’re, rightly, very wary / sceptical of what sort of ‘justice’ a sharia council will grant you), then you’re going to face a huge amount of criticism, even ostracism from within your wider family and community.

That’s an awful lot of pressure for anyone to face down, particularly where they’re already on the back foot, purely because of their sex.

Or locking women up as free labour in laundries, giving - selling babies without mother’s consent to rich Americans, banning contraception, burying dead babies in mass graves or septic tanks, advising women to stay in abusive marriages because it’s shameful to separate and they couldn’t be granted a divorce, banning sex education in schools, mass child sex abuse in schools, children’s homes and wider parishes, moving known child rapists on to new parishes with absolutely zero punishment or communication of their previous crimes where they can go on to more abuse.

But yes put ‘harmful’ in quotes in your little patronising tone.

The church couldn’t possibly be outright ‘harmful’.

Oh I agree, but the alternative is someone not being able to practice their religion which doesn’t work either All we can really do is offer a secular society by law, with support and legal protections for people outside of their religion and hope that the secular religion penetrates through and limits the control the churches of all faiths have on people.

People talk about “freedom”, in particular Christianity being freeing but they’ve clearly never lived in a religious community. The pressure, the indoctrination and the hold it can have is unbelievable.

But just as we can’t close Christian churches, we can’t ban Sharia councils because people do have the right to practice their religion. People underestimate how much Christian churches play a very similar role to that of a sharia council.

As much as I support those counter-protests, that doesn't really support your argument. Those were antiracism, not anti-Islamic extremism protests. Which suggests a definite selectivity. Maybe because of intimidation or not wanting to appear divided as a Muslim community, I don't know.

Because these are religious theocracies whose rule of law, and implementation of law, is based in the religion.

Really interesting programme, thanks.

If you're a Muslim though, why wouldn't you want to be 'divided' from Islamic extremists? I get intimidation might be a factor, in that they're too scared of these nutcases themselves (with very good reason) to speak out against them.

I live in an area in London which is almost 50% Jewish. Shops shut on the sabbath, there is only kosher food etc. it bothers me not one bit. I enjoy the food, and get on with my neighbours. When they were young, a huge percentage of my kids’ friends were off school for Jewish holidays. It helped them learn about other cultures and religions and they experienced amazing bar and bat mitzvahs.

I have never felt forced out or that the area is unliveable because of a religious majority.

I think integration and learning the language is important (a philosophy that the Brits in Spain should adopt), but tolerance and learning is also vital. It can work but takes effort on both sides.