To think it is 100% this runner’s fault that I almost hit him?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

On my way to pick DS2 up from nursery with DS1 and DS3 up, around 20 past 5 so it’s already dark. There’s a queue to turn at a T junction and a small cul-de-sac on the left so I’d stopped just before the cul-de-sac to let people out/in. A few cars have pulled out so I’m slowly moving forward after checking mirrors when a runner goes diagonally across the road from behind my right, directly in front of another car going the other way and then in front of my car and I have to stamp on my brake so I don’t hit him. He is wearing:

• trainers- I didn’t see what colour but they definitely weren’t white or anything particularly bright or visible
• black running leggings and shorts
• a dark green long sleeved tshirt
• black gloves
• a dark grey beanie
• literally no bright or reflective items of clothing or accessories whatsoever.

After narrowly avoiding him I beeped my horn, at which point he turned around, swore at me and carried on running. I saw him running up and then around the corner, and further down that road I witnessed him running straight across a zebra crossing without pausing at all to make sure there were no cars approaching.

I didn’t hit him. But AIBU to think if I had, it would not have been my fault, given that he was wearing dark clothing and nothing reflective so he was barely visible, and ran straight in front of my car? I mean how fucking stupid can you be?

My running club insists that everyone wears high viz and lights when running on the streets after dark.
Non negotiable.

I have to admit that I don't, but I always cross at a crossing and make sure the cars are slowing down - i.e. have actually seen me. I don't go running or otherwise use the road on foot, and where I live isn't country lanes.

It's a good idea to get a high-viz accessory of some sort though.

From a drivers perspective would be amazing if they did
From a pedestrian/cyclist perspective it would be amazing is motorists looked where they were going. I'm sick of dodging dickhead drivers pulling onto pavements, reversing off their drives with no clue what's happening behind them, drifting aimlessly round roundabouts with no indication of where they're going, ignoring red lights. Driving seems to be an inconvenient distraction from phones, vaping etc.

Really good point. Adult runners in dark clothing are annoying but teenage boys are the group most likely to dart out from between cars without judging the gap in the traffic. It’s dark now when they’re heading home from school. As a driver you have to be aware that not all pedestrians will use safe crossing points - though the OP doesn’t seem to be that cautious approaching crossings!

I live in Scandinavia and it is the norm that you have a reflective strip on your arm, or a plastic reflective thing (I have no idea what these are called in English!) attached to your coat pocket that you take out when walking in the dark. I am a bit surprised it isn't the norm in the UK as while your winters aren't as dark as ours, they are dark enough that people are out and about after sunset. Yes, drivers do have the overall responsibility, but it is acknowledged that it can be hard to see people dressed in dark colours at night in time to avoid them, and the consequences are so great if someone is hit. The person is equally dead whether the driver is blame or not.

No need for high-viz jackets or the like, just get a reflective armband or a plastic thing, and take it out if walking somewhere with poorly lit crossings or no pavements. It doesn't need to be a big deal.

even cycling in full orange high vis, some drivers still miss and almost cause an accident,

Quite. I know people who've been knocked off their bikes whilst lit up like Christmas trees - all the hi-vis in the world is no use if the driver isn't paying attention.🙁

Reflective strips are easy to add to coats. My dog’s coat is high vis with reflective strips!

Well it was meant for the OP but obviously you feel it applies to you out of some sense of guilt. Seat belts are there to protect yourself from a situation that you put yourself in. When you drive properly and with care, you need to make sure you don't kill anyone else in the process - maybe read the highway code again and the law? If everyone followed that, then pedestrians would be safe. Even in the dark, wearing dark clothes. At the moment, kids can't even cross a side street without being run over by a car, even during the day time or if they were wearing a bloody beacon light on their head, because drivers don't look properly and don't bother following the rules of the road.

That’s why I’ve never gotten into road cycling. Drivers make it unsafe, sometimes because of inattention, sometimes because of intentional harassment.

Definitely not 100% his fault!
You're driving a vehicle so it's 100% your responsibility to ensure it's safe when you move off. What someone is wearing/not wearing is irrelevant. If you can't see a safe distance ahead, it's on you too be more careful.

The sheer stupidity of some pedestrians and road users never ceases to surprise me! FFS wear something reflective, put your kids in something reflective, and read the bloody road!
AND those pedestrians who are glued to their sodding mobile phones when walking along and paying absolutely NO regard to others.........brainless!

if drivers are using mobiles at the wheel it should be auto ban

Guilt? Get real. You say that seatbelts are there to protect yourself from a situation that you have put yourself in - what is travelling about in the dark without making yourself visible other than a situation that you have put yourself in? No one made you go out like that.

Your arguments are illogical.

Invest in a dash cam. Not a runner but I had a cyclist cut me up which doesn't even sound possible but he was going full pelt in his lycia ( ie not a commuter) he then pulled straight onto a A road roundabout in front of a car. He had zero fear of death or injury. I had to keep well back until I could overtake him on a hill when I was sure he couldn't cut me up again. He was almost like a cash for crash idiot but I don't honestly think he has clue what a car can do to bone and flesh at 30mph. Everytime I see this kind of twattery I kick myself for not having a dash cam.

I don't normally like to moan but I'll allow myself to make an exception for this thread.

It's a free for all where I live. Black, lightless bikes ridden by people wearing black clothes, cycling through red lights, weaving in between traffic... I was driving down a one way street recently and a cyclist was coming towards me, going the wrong way, and on the wrong side of the road (it was a wide one way street) while looking at her phone. Earlier today I watched an e-scooter fly through a junction without even looking. Tonight I was driving along a road and woman was ambling in the middle of it rather than the pavement for some reason, staring at her phone, totally oblivious to me waiting for her to move out the way. People in dark clothing just stepping out into traffic. On Wednesday night I was driving along a narrowish road and someone in a parked up car suddenly flung their door open. I constantly have to preempt what people are going to do and just assume it's going to be something stupid. It's horrible when it's raining because it makes it even harder to see, especially with all the LED laser beams and fog lights burning into your retinae.

That feels better

🤣

At the moment, kids can't even cross a side street without being run over by a car, even during the day time or if they were wearing a bloody beacon light on their head,

I don't know, my kids cross side streets and even main roads every day and haven't managed to get hit yet. What are they doing wrong?

Bollocks.

You don’t accidentally harass someone.

What a lazy and ridiculous analogy 🙄

He ran out in front of her car (and multiple others).
There’s only so much you can do as a driver and it’s basic common sense to not walk out in front of a vehicle.

You drive, you don't wear a seat belt, you fly through the windshield. Your fault. You walk, you're following all the rules, a driver hits you with their car because they didn't follow the rules, you get knocked down. Not your fault. It's sad that you don't understand the concept of being at fault and taking responsibility. You should really not be driving if you think it's fair to hit someone in your death machine, because they are not wearing reflective clothing while crossing the street and you weren't looking at the road properly. But you can't argue with stupid, so I'll leave it at that.

It's not an accident when you're driving and not looking at the road properly, and not considering the hierarchy of road users; that's being at fault. And then trying to put the blame on the other person. Maybe time to retake your driving test?

You still seem to think that all the onus is on the drivers and no one has personal responsibility except for drivers. Well, you say you can't argue with stupid - I'd say that you can't argue with illogical and hysterical and that yes, you should leave it at that before you make yourself look even more so.

You also assume that I'm not looking at the road properly - in fact, you make a lot of assumptions without any evidence. Perhaps, yes, it would be wiser for you to be silent from now on.

The good old 'it hasn't happened to me or my kids so it must not happen at all' anecdotal fallacy. Go look up the stats, you'll be shocked.

I nearly hit a runner today - he cut a corner to get onto a zebra crossing, earbuds in, didn't check the road or even look up when I slammed on the breaks. He then saw my car and my freaked out face and started shouting abuse. Tosser. I nearly had a heart attack. Thank god for the 20 speed limit