To think it is 100% this runner’s fault that I almost hit him?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

On my way to pick DS2 up from nursery with DS1 and DS3 up, around 20 past 5 so it’s already dark. There’s a queue to turn at a T junction and a small cul-de-sac on the left so I’d stopped just before the cul-de-sac to let people out/in. A few cars have pulled out so I’m slowly moving forward after checking mirrors when a runner goes diagonally across the road from behind my right, directly in front of another car going the other way and then in front of my car and I have to stamp on my brake so I don’t hit him. He is wearing:

• trainers- I didn’t see what colour but they definitely weren’t white or anything particularly bright or visible
• black running leggings and shorts
• a dark green long sleeved tshirt
• black gloves
• a dark grey beanie
• literally no bright or reflective items of clothing or accessories whatsoever.

After narrowly avoiding him I beeped my horn, at which point he turned around, swore at me and carried on running. I saw him running up and then around the corner, and further down that road I witnessed him running straight across a zebra crossing without pausing at all to make sure there were no cars approaching.

I didn’t hit him. But AIBU to think if I had, it would not have been my fault, given that he was wearing dark clothing and nothing reflective so he was barely visible, and ran straight in front of my car? I mean how fucking stupid can you be?

Yes they do. You can ride them on a provisional bike license (for which you need to take a CBT test) for up to 2 years, but you still need tax and insurance.

Why ? Pedestrians are not absolved of responsibility to make sure it’s safe to cross, by allowing enough time for oncoming traffic to slow down and stop. Makes my blood boil when pedestrians just dart out when you’re practically on top of what two seconds ago was an empty crossing, and just expect you to stop.

Yet another candidate for the Darwin Awards.

I use a running light when out running, but that's purely so I can see where I'm going on any roads with less than great street lighting.

Am I fuck going to dress up like a christmas tree though if I'm just walking on a pavement.

Yes but this also depends if the runner was being considerate to traffic, if they thought they could 'nip' across the road then it's totally different
Anyone who is accustomed to running in the dark knows to wear reflective/ visible wear surely

Earlier this week I nearly hit a runner running in the road on a stretch that is already difficult to see on but has footpaths on both sides. I can only assume they were running in the road because it was icy and they thought the road would be less slippery which as a fellow runner I get but it wouldn’t have helped if I had hit him.

Incidentally, I run, on the footpath, with front and back waist lights and also lights on my shoes.

Not in the town and not 'official' hi-viz, but when walking along roads with no pavements after dark, I wear a pale coloured coat and hat, and carry my phone with the flashlight on, pointing at my feet so as not to dazzle the drivers. I'm well aware of how hard I can be to spot, and also of the way many drivers shoot round the bends in country roads just assuming that there won't be a pedestrian or runner approaching.

I was driving across a busy staggered crossroads once and had to slam on my brakes to avoid hitting a guy on an electric scooter.

It was dark, raining and he’d jumped a red light and gone straight across my path. No lights, dark clothing, no helmet - but best of all? There was a CHILD on the back of the scooter. Wtf???

DH was in the passenger seat and didn’t see the scooter at all until after I’d braked. We were both so shaken up at this near miss but I bet the stupid bastard didn’t even notice and carried on scooting like this.

Yes, it should be the runner/cyclist/scooter’s fault if they aren’t visible and don’t follow basic safety precautions. Sadly it affects everyone though, if the worst happens.

There’s no law people have to wear reflective clothing
There is a law about misuse of a car horn…which puts you at fault there
Drivers are supposed to slow and look for anyone crossing at a zebra crossing or even anyone that looks like they are about to cross…..pedestrians take priority here.

Despite all of the above runners or anyone that dashes across the road right in front of a car are a danger to all those on the road.

I think people who don’t drive sometimes genuinely don’t realise how invisible they are and think car drivers are being unreasonable. Almost the only time I’ve ever properly shouted at DD1 was when she went through a “cycling in the dark, dressed in black with no lights or helmet” phase, made worse by the fact she had to ride for miles along unlit country roads to get anywhere. She has since learned to drive and said now she understood why I made such a fuss about the cycling in the dark!

Does anyone else remember those little reflector things they used to give away in cereal packets?

Teenagers are the absolute worst for this. Dressed head to toe in black, headphones in, and darting out in front of cars when you least suspect it.

Also, the ridiculously bright head lights aimed straight at your face that so many cars have now is making the problem worse. If a car is coming towards me on a dark road with bright lights then I have to slow down to a crawl as I can't see anything behind that car until it passes me.

He’s an absolute twat!

Even if he was wearing high viz stuff from head to toe it still wouldn’t matter, because you don’t run out in front of a car!

Unfortunately, these people have no clue that just because they can see you, it doesn’t mean you can see them.

All it took was for the sunlight to be in your eyes for a split second and you’d have hit him.

The fact that he didn’t even stop at the crossing just proves what an entities twat he is.

I have hi vis for my child but it is a sad state of things that people need to make themselves more visible just so that drivers take a basic level of care.

Near me (usually at school in/out time) even when crossing at a pedestrian crossing where the lights are fully red NOT AMBER nearly every other day I see drivers just barrel through on red. In one instance the other lane was stopped waiting and the person in front of us was nearly half across. Just wish I’d been quick enough to get the registration.

As a motorist, I do take my responsibilities seriously. I'm well-aware that although my car is small, it could be lethal.

What I expect is that other people - pedestrians, cyclists, runners etc - are equally serious about keeping themselves alive and if that means lights, torches, hi-vis vests, fluorescent strips or bright colours then so be it. If they're not prepared to make the slightest effort, they've only themselves to blame.

You don't use a car horn because you are annoyed it is not a toy

Yes it helps if people are to be seen but this is why drivers need to be more aware a car can kill a pedestrian not so much

What did I just read? Thinking it's fair enough if a pedestrian gets hit by a car because they weren't wearing any reflective gear? That's like saying it's expected that a woman will get harassed for not covering herself up. It's your responsibility to protect the more vulnerable road users.

Haven't read the full thread but your post resonated with me. A few weeks ago I was driving along a 30 limit road but slower because of traffic. Nonetheless, a runner came out of nowhere on my left and ran diagonally into the road in front of me. He did not look at all, jut darted out! Had I been going 30 I may have hit him. I was very much shaken. No he wasn't wearing bright reflective clothing either . I assume he had earbuds in and wasn't paying attention to traffic.

The law changed to give pedestrians right of way, so I am unsure about whether a motorist in this type of situation would still be 100% liable if a collision occured.

Exactly this.

@AngeloMysterioso you are not being unreasonable at all! also, people on pavements do not seem to realise that in the glare of oncoming lights, they become really difficult to see people crossing roads at all! my friend stated this one evening when she was in the car with me. she doesnt drive but she was shocked that she couldnt see someone crossing the road (not at a crossing) due to the lights coming towards us!

‘No amount of smugness around "it's always the car driver's fault" makes up for being dead’

@WrongWrongWrongAgain said this up thread.

It is right that the law is weighted against the car driver, but pedestrians, runners and cyclists have to take some responsibility for their own life.

I presume that's meant for me?

I stand by my comment. If you make no effort to ensure your own safety, you should not be surprised if you suffer an accident.

You wouldn't get in a car without putting your seat belt on, would you? You'd think someone was hugely irresponsible for doing so. But when the law was first introduced, many people protested against it - now we take it for granted. Why should night-time visibility be any different?

Don't be so ridiculous?

It’s pretty stupid to run in the dark without reflective clothing because that means you’re relying on drivers’ awareness to keep you safe. Too many drivers are lazy, tired, distracted or just shit at driving. High vis or even lights keep you safer.

And that is why I refuse to follow the school uniform list of a plain black coat for school… as now it is dark when walk home from school when have clubs etc..

The trouble is that people in dark clothing after dark often have NO idea just how invisible they are, and that is especially true if they're not a driver.

I think it's a matter of education. In an ideal world, someone would stop him and explain to him that he's virtually invisible in the dark. Sounds like he really doesn't realise. Because if you would, why wouldn't you wear something high-viz?