To think it is 100% this runner’s fault that I almost hit him?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

On my way to pick DS2 up from nursery with DS1 and DS3 up, around 20 past 5 so it’s already dark. There’s a queue to turn at a T junction and a small cul-de-sac on the left so I’d stopped just before the cul-de-sac to let people out/in. A few cars have pulled out so I’m slowly moving forward after checking mirrors when a runner goes diagonally across the road from behind my right, directly in front of another car going the other way and then in front of my car and I have to stamp on my brake so I don’t hit him. He is wearing:

• trainers- I didn’t see what colour but they definitely weren’t white or anything particularly bright or visible
• black running leggings and shorts
• a dark green long sleeved tshirt
• black gloves
• a dark grey beanie
• literally no bright or reflective items of clothing or accessories whatsoever.

After narrowly avoiding him I beeped my horn, at which point he turned around, swore at me and carried on running. I saw him running up and then around the corner, and further down that road I witnessed him running straight across a zebra crossing without pausing at all to make sure there were no cars approaching.

I didn’t hit him. But AIBU to think if I had, it would not have been my fault, given that he was wearing dark clothing and nothing reflective so he was barely visible, and ran straight in front of my car? I mean how fucking stupid can you be?

So the runner has no responsibility? I used to drive to work every mirning and there was a cyclist who had no back lights or hi viz clothing - you didn't see him til you were practically on top of him!

And this is why my winter coats are light colours (one long cream coloured padded one and a shorter waterproof one that's mustard yellow) and I have a bright orange hi-vis vest just in case! People like this annoy me as a pedestrian. My night vision is rubbish and I've nearly walked into people dressed all in dark colours because I can't see them!

This is rather trivial but I'll mention it anyway because dark coats and hi Vis have been mentioned a fair amount. Dark coats are common for winter and uniforms, I wouldn't necessarily change clothing as a pedestrian or wear a hi Vis jacket. A simple "hi Vis sash" could do the job for example IF it wasn't light enough. Maybe we need something fashionable 😂

Yes some sort of sash works. When ds was at primary school they gave out stickers to put on bags, rucksacks etc (although my rucksack has a hi vis trim on it anyway).

Both have responsibility - the pedestrian and cyclist have responsibilities to make themselves as visible as they can and the driver needs to take care as they are in control of a heavy metal box. It's not an either/or.

That's because they are. Not just the mums - the parents at my local primary school share about one brain cell between them, judging by their parking and driving at school run time! And not just the SUV drivers, although they are terrible. We do need a graduated licence scheme and while I'd like to ban SUVs for urban use altogether, making people do an extra test before they are allowed to drive one would help.

I partly disagree with this.

Yes, as the person with the big heavy machinery, you are responsible for driving with due care and attention but, at night and in these dark evenings, pedestrians should live up to their part of the social bargin by taking due care when crossing the road and identifying themselves with a torch or reflective accessories.

Wearing dark clothes at night is akin to wearing camouflage and then complaining that you went unnoticed!

It would be funny if it were not so very dangerous in the context of road safety.

Tooting your horn to announce your presence to a pedestrian whose dangerous road-crossing choices indicate that they are unaware of traffic seems reasonable in this context.

I am sorry that you were sworn at but I guess you already knew they were unreasonable when they crossed so close in front of you so their reaction was somewhat predictable but I'm not sure what else you could have done. Perhaps someone else will enlighten us.

Pedestrians: be seen, be safe and look for a safe place to cross the road!

Nowhere did the poster write that the runner didn’t have any response for beer own actions.

telling a driver that they must take responsibility doesn’t mean no one else should.

Are you having a laugh? From a car it can be completely impossible to see some people or cyclists if they have no lights or wearing all black/dark clothes until you are practically on top of them. It’s nothing to do with someone’s vision or capability. It’s the same for everyone. That’s why cyclists and runners etc are advised to have lights/hi vis etc. You can’t avoid something if you literally can’t see it.

@CrazyAndSagittarius if you can’t see something from a car that you could when not in a car you should hand in your licence.

because if you hit it, you might kill it as opposed to fall off your bike or trip over it.

If a pedestrian/runner is wearing dark clothes on a dark night with no torch or hi-viz, they are going to be practically invisible to motorists and pedestrians alike.

It is the runner's responsibility to make themselves visible and to cross the road only when it is safe to do so, just as all road users both motorised and pedalists are required to use front and rear lights and follow the highway code.

We all have a responsibility to have a care for one another.

Nope. The person that can cause greater harm bears greater responsibility. So if you are driving a car you can cause greater harm. If yo are driving a truck it’s greater again. Which is why they’re separate licenses. Also why as part of your driving test you are asked to read number plates and supposed to - by law- to surrender your license if you can’t see well.

i’m not saying pedestrians shouldn’t take precautions - they code says they should, But it’s not as simple as they were hard to see so too bad I killed them because if you were simply walking by and bumped into them you would be unlikely to kill them, There are standards of eyesight for driving, in reality you might be mitigated and maybe not do jail time but if you struggle to see you should drive slower or stop. The hierarchy of road users applies and the conditions under which you got your license also does. How many people genuinely do check their eyesight to check they are fit to drive, particularly for nyctalopia/ night blindness. I’m going to say not many. But it’s a condition of your licence.

Eh, how many trucks have a sign on the back warning about blind spots? Telling you you need to take a bit of responsibility for the truck seeing you to me it does.

@gamerchick - well that’s quite limited circumstances. Not what PP was referring to. Also a sign warning others doesn’t actually override additional safety requirements in higher risk situations. In areas where there’s been a lot of accidents trucks have to have additional safety features to mitigate. Eg DSV in Greater London. Not just a little sign on the back. Again this places greater responsibility on the drivers who may do most harm. IME as a cyclist in London I personally find truck drivers actually some of the most courteous drivers around. And I am acutely aware of the blind spot. But to be clear the onus is absolutely not solely on the most vulnerable road user.

Now, this is a clear day in absence of light. What's going to happen in the dark with heavy rain when all you can see are blurry lights with occasional snapshots. Doesn't bear thinking about.

But you do actually need to drive at a speed where you can stop in the time it would take you to see something - especially somewhere with a reasonable expectation of people crossing the road. So in the conditions you describe, if you can't see further than the front of your bonnet you need to be absolutely crawling along. It might be a person in the road or it could be bins blown into your path or a tree that's come down or anything. You can't just drive into the darkness and assume there's nothing in your path. If you want to drive like that you need a train.

ETA - realised your post may be making the same point as me in which case, I agree!

Yes, that that's really the reality of how someone would need to proceed - but how many would actually drive this way? I think the majority are driving in faith. I say that as a passenger recalling how the windscreen looked.

YANBU at all. I’m sick of cyclists and runners and even pedestrians who run across the road wearing all dark clothing.

It’s almost like they are aware of their own existence so assume everyone else is, therefore they don’t need to be visible.

Unless the invisibilty cloak has been invented, they are not invisible. The roads are not just for you.

As a victim of sa, i'm not offended by this analogy in the least

No he shouldn't have run out in front of you OP

I really disagree with the tooting the horn. It's supposed to be a warning of your presence, not a rebuke. People beep their horn because they are angry and impatient. And yes sometimes I do it myself eg when someone overtakes a cyclist and drives right at me coming in the other direction. Although I'd say that is also a warning that I am actually there and can't disappear!

As I said in my original post on this thread - if you have time to beep you have time to brake.

Beeping is really irritating for everyone else in the vicinity as they don't know who's beeping who. Save it for when you actually need it.

DDs university sports kit, coat and fleece is all black with no reflective strips. Drives me mad, you'd think a uni would have more sense.

I had been out for a run yesterday (where I wore hi vis) and was driving back from where my running club meets and I was really aware of how many pedestrians were all in black. Two people crossed the road ahead of me (some way ahead so it wasn't unsafe) but they were like shadows and I barely saw them. Two other people were walking along the pavement, also all in black and were very difficult to see, even under streetlights.

I also saw a couple walking their dog and their dog had a bright collar on though so some people are sensible!

Trigger happy horn tooters are a pita on our roads