To think it is 100% this runner’s fault that I almost hit him?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

On my way to pick DS2 up from nursery with DS1 and DS3 up, around 20 past 5 so it’s already dark. There’s a queue to turn at a T junction and a small cul-de-sac on the left so I’d stopped just before the cul-de-sac to let people out/in. A few cars have pulled out so I’m slowly moving forward after checking mirrors when a runner goes diagonally across the road from behind my right, directly in front of another car going the other way and then in front of my car and I have to stamp on my brake so I don’t hit him. He is wearing:

• trainers- I didn’t see what colour but they definitely weren’t white or anything particularly bright or visible
• black running leggings and shorts
• a dark green long sleeved tshirt
• black gloves
• a dark grey beanie
• literally no bright or reflective items of clothing or accessories whatsoever.

After narrowly avoiding him I beeped my horn, at which point he turned around, swore at me and carried on running. I saw him running up and then around the corner, and further down that road I witnessed him running straight across a zebra crossing without pausing at all to make sure there were no cars approaching.

I didn’t hit him. But AIBU to think if I had, it would not have been my fault, given that he was wearing dark clothing and nothing reflective so he was barely visible, and ran straight in front of my car? I mean how fucking stupid can you be?

I bet they are knocked off their cycles all the time.

I had a friend who commuted in London on a cycle 20 odd years ago. He just accepted that he'd get knocked off his bike several times a year 😳

He was an entitled idiot expecting all other road users to be aware of him, stop for him and not bash into him! Everyone should take full responsibility for themselves when crossing a road to make sure there are no vehicles moving towards you. If you were just a normal pedestrian walking along and crossing the road this probably wouldn't happen as you'd wait for vehicles to pass and then cross so why is it acceptable for runners?

"It seems to be a new thing this but happens all the time, to the point it feels like there should be some kind of awareness campaign."

I'm old enough to remember that there was a "Wear Something Bright At Night" campaign many years ago, and I know from years of sports training that clubs encourage people running after dusk to wear something reflective.

From my time living in Scandinavia, I remember every child had small plastic reflectors on a string (in the shape of snowflakes, animals, stars etc) that were attached to the inside of their coat pockets so in the evenings they just took them out and let them dangle. Banks, shops and schools used to give these away as advertising gifts every autumn. Kids and adults also carried backpacks with reflective panels - e.g. the fox logo on the Fjallräven backpack - stripes and more reflectors attached.

The horn is there to raise awareness of your presence... thats what it did.

I try to be mindful of having a light and/or having a coat that has reflective stuff on it when I'm a pedestrian in low light, yes.

Sure.

Exactly. It sounds like the runner was to blame and they should have been wearing Hi vis or whatever but it’s not necessary for me and I don’t want to go about wearing that stuff but then, I don’t run or cycle in the dark/at all.

And I’ve never been knocked over or came close to it, as I tend to cross at green lights or at at other suitable places.

As a runner myself I make sure I wear reflective high viz clothing in winter or dark conditions. I also wear a head torch. YANBU.

They didn't say runners though, they said pedestrians. It's ridiculous to suggest all pedestrians should wear high viz

Not one person I know wears hi-vis as a pedestrian.

I don’t see it except on passing cyclists, or runners or pedestrians walking with a helmet (which would suggest they’re going to their bike!) or people clearly doing some kind of outdoor/security type job but I certainly don’t see it of an evening when I encounter people in car parks, restaurants, supermarkets and the like 😂

I was on your side until I read the part where you got annoyed at him going over a zebra crossing and expected him to stop for the cars....

Of course really! Do you not realise how difficult it is to see runners/cyclists, particularly in the winter, when they're wearing dark colours? I don't know what ?!?!?!?!? that's all about. Why would the suggestion of safety precautions be so shocking to you?

I can't understand anyone who goes out cycling or running after dark without refractive clothing and lights on their bikes.
Don't they want to live.
Yanbu.
Swearing the usual bad response, when your in the wrong instead of saying sorry.

Do you know the difference between a runner/cyclist and a pedestrian?

yes really. I gave myself a salutary shock last winter when I was walking across a poorly lit carpark and realised that I was wearing a dark green coat, black beanie and navy jeans. I now have got reflective dots on the hat and a reflective scarf

literally no bright or reflective items of clothing or accessories whatsoever
Really🤔? I don't think I've ever owned running kit that doesn't have reflective strips that light up like a runway at night. As the motorist, you're the one with the potential to kill vulnerable road users. It shouldn't be a big ask of you to look where you're going, be aware of what's going on around you and take driving seriously.

An idiot with a death wish.
Ditto cyclists dressed in black with no or weak lights.

If anyone is out in the dark and realises they’re in all dark clothes put the torch on on your phone or an old fashioned idea was to carry a newspaper which should show up in car headlights.

Excellent diagram. If you had hit him it would have been your fault because he's a pedestrian even though he was going faster than your average pedestrian. Runners, cyclists, people on scooters should all really wear reflective clothing in the dark but lots don't. It's incredibly hard to see them if they don't and it's dangerous. So I don't think you are unreasonable, but I do think if you had hit him you would be seen to be at fault.

I disagree with you, @Octovent : I've seen runners do exactly that:

We all learn that drivers should stop for pedestrians at pedestrian crossings, but we look for pedestrians at the kerb: we don't expect them to come shooting out of a side street and to dash across the road so fast that we don't see them coming:
And I have the same gripe about those ruddy electric scooters that appear from nowhere and cut in front of cars.
I was walking home earlier down a one way street (on the pavement) in the direction of the traffic flow when I noticed a woman on an unlit electric scooter coming towards me at speed: it was dark, she was dressed in dark clothes and was going against the flow of the traffic: a car driver coming down the street would not be expecting to meet oncoming traffic, much less an invisible woman arriving at speed.

He could have just raised his hand and mouthed sorry.
People sadly often resort to swearing when they are in the wrong. Better if they didn't.

I don’t just walk out into the road without pausing when I’m at a zebra crossing. I usually wait until any approaching cars have stopped or at least slowed down so I know they’ve seen me. This guy just carried on running straight across.

Kids and runners don’t often wear bright or reflective clothing. I bare this in mind when driving as I know it’s my responsibility not to run people over. It would be my fault if my car hit someone

That’s not the DVLA standard. Drivers are not required to have 360 degree vision - if the runner came from behind and ran in front of a moving vehicle, that’s on the runner, not the driver.

And those stupid motorbikes with perpetual L plates weaving in and out

Do they ever pass a test or have insurance

From a drivers perspective would be amazing if they did