To think it is 100% this runner’s fault that I almost hit him?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

On my way to pick DS2 up from nursery with DS1 and DS3 up, around 20 past 5 so it’s already dark. There’s a queue to turn at a T junction and a small cul-de-sac on the left so I’d stopped just before the cul-de-sac to let people out/in. A few cars have pulled out so I’m slowly moving forward after checking mirrors when a runner goes diagonally across the road from behind my right, directly in front of another car going the other way and then in front of my car and I have to stamp on my brake so I don’t hit him. He is wearing:

• trainers- I didn’t see what colour but they definitely weren’t white or anything particularly bright or visible
• black running leggings and shorts
• a dark green long sleeved tshirt
• black gloves
• a dark grey beanie
• literally no bright or reflective items of clothing or accessories whatsoever.

After narrowly avoiding him I beeped my horn, at which point he turned around, swore at me and carried on running. I saw him running up and then around the corner, and further down that road I witnessed him running straight across a zebra crossing without pausing at all to make sure there were no cars approaching.

I didn’t hit him. But AIBU to think if I had, it would not have been my fault, given that he was wearing dark clothing and nothing reflective so he was barely visible, and ran straight in front of my car? I mean how fucking stupid can you be?

Yanbu. Someone was standing in all black clothes on the side of a back country road the other day in the pitch black. I didn't see them until I came round the corner and only because my beams were on full. Scared the crap out of me and was stupidly dangerous!

The thing is I think pedestrians have right of way, didn’t the law change recently?

So before the law may have stipulated pedestrians stop, cars go, pedestrians go. But now it stipulates cars stop, pedestrians go, cars go.

obviously everyone needs to use roads in a safe manner but it does put the overall onus on the driver

You know the case recently where a cyclist was pushed into the road by a pedestrian and a car hit her and she died (in broad daylight)…

Did you blame the car driver in that scenario too?

Matey was wearing dark clothing on a dark night and ran directly into my path from behind me. How far ahead I am able to see means precisely fuck all.

Agree regarding the speed limit. Twenty's plenty.

You're right calling them reflectors when talking about them. Although anyone interested in buying them would need to search for keyring reflectors or you get loads of reflective tape and bike reflectors.

We normally wear reflectors in the UK and I do feel it helps cars see me.

There’s “crossing the street” and there’s “running out in front of traffic whilst also being barely visible in the dark”.

Coming from someone who is a runner and a driver (also a pedestrian) he shouldn't have been entirely in black because it's so hard to see at night regardless of which direction you are running in.

I stick to pavements with street lights but I still wear a bright neon orange running vest which is impossible to miss and I've just ordered some reflective ankle straps too.

As a pedestrian I don't wear anything reflective, I've never met anybody who wears hi viz reflective gear when they have a wander to their corner shop in the dark, only those who are likely to be walking on poorly lit country roads.

This is one of the reasons I'm wary of driving. Anyone could do the macarena in your blind spots then jump in front of you and if you kill them you're still in most cases getting manslaughter at the least because you're supposed to be aware at all times. Honestly I just don't think there's much of a solution to this problem (same issue with cyclists) because people that don't drive just don't understand or appreciate what it's like driving. I think as well as drivers having awareness in their tests, non drivers should have driving experience just to understand the dangers better. Socially, for example, straight people are being required to undertake sensitivity training for LGBTQ etc - surely pedestrians/cyclists could take training to improve their understanding and safety around cars/vehicles beyond "the green cross code". Training for the vulnerable as opposed to those driving the vehicles is long overdue especially now with all the scooters etc.

In the case of the cyclist being pushed into the road. Your terminology is interesting but make no mistake: She was killed by a driver. Constantly scanning one's surroundings and anticipating possible situations is part of being a responsible driver.

I was driving along a residential road a couple of weeks ago in the dark, and passing some parked cars on my side of the road. Must have been travelling about 15mph. Suddenly, there were 3 kids/teens on black/very dark bicycles coming the other way, all dressed in black and no lights or reflectors. I managed to stop in time but it was such a fright! I wasn't distracted and wasn't going too fast for the road. They were just invisible until they were uncomfortably close. I really think they must have had no idea that they weren't able to be seen. I did beep at them, which, of course, they didn't appreciate.

I agree with the need for some sort of campaign to raise awareness. Yes, drivers have a responsibility to take all possible precautions to avoid an accident but vulnerable road users also need to do their bit. At the end of the day, a vehicle is limited by its stopping distance. If someone appears out of nowhere, it's physically impossible for a motor vehicle to stop any shorter than that limit, no matter how good the driver.

But in a lot of cases pedestrians go before cars have stopped - don’t even give them a chance to. The overall onus isn’t on the driver to take responsibility for the stupidity of pedestrians. Personal responsibility seems to have been replaced by entitlement.

She was killed by the driver because she was pushed into the road right in front of her by a pedestrian. How do you ‘scan’ for that ? The driver was exonerated and the pedestrian was later jailed for manslaughter.

That’s my point - if pedestrians do have right of way, the onus is on drivers to slow down to begin with as opposed to being given the option to decide to stop or carry on, as they need to give way. Whereas if drivers have right of way, you wouldn’t expect them to slow down and stop for pedestrians but instead to carry on as they are. The driver isn’t being entitled if that’s the rule of that specific road, so the same should apply in reverse.

I do think pedestrians need to be more aware as well. Phones and earbuds are not helpful

Electric cars are worrying as you can't hear the engine and I believe they are heavier

I think it should be illegal for anyone, including pedestrians, to step on to a road where it is not a crossing such as traffic lights or pedestrians crossing, after sunset without high vis or lights.

I had to avoid a person walking on my side of the road in head to toe Matt black clothing, it was an unlit country road with no pavement at 10pm in winter, literally could not see until a car luckily came the other way and there was a suggestion of a shadow on the side of the road.

You can't avoid what you can't see.

In the dark at this time of year, if they value their lives, yes.

I don’t think you realise how invisible you are in dark clothes until you’ve been a driver and seen a person materialise out of nowhere. I always wear reflective strips at night in winter, even if walking down my street lit road.

What I expect
is completely irrelevant - it's the law that defines the duty of care owed by you as a motorist to vulnerable roadusers

It's not drivers vs runners/cyclists (I'm all 3), it's idiots vs the rest of us. Everyone is a pedestrian first (age 1ish), most are cyclists next (age 6ish), and some go on to be drivers (18ish).

I was cycling with lights and 4 items of hi viz around 4pm the other day, and still a car pulling out of a side road 'didn't see me' 🙄

In more cycle/pedestrian friendly countries, the more vulnerable road user (cyclist, pedestrian) has more protection in law, and drivers' insurance will pay out by default. Drivers know this, and pay more attention. It is a core part of driving lessons and the theory test. E.g. in the UK the cyclist death rate is 30 people per billion miles cycled, in the Netherlands it's much lower at 17.7 per billion (11 per billion km - no doubt the safer cycle infrastructure also helps).

I've seen similar a lot, not so much runners, but cyclists.
Dark coloured bikes, dark clothing, little or no lighting, and little or no road sense. Even with your lights on, you don't see them until they're very close.
I've had kids on bikes and scooters shoot across the road directly in front of me, in the dark, wearing dark clothes and with no lights. Thank god l have good reflexes and decent brakes. But if you hit them, you're at fault.

Yes everyone should take care when out an about but car drivers are the ones driving a weapon that can kill no matter who is at fault

And drivers turn around to deal with children, use their phones, fiddle with radios, eat and drink and do not always concentrate

If they kill someone sure sometimes they will be let off but between a car and a person who will win?

the fact that you haven't owned non reflective running kit doesn't mean that other peole don't go out in the dark without any reflective kit on.

OP, you asked whether you were being unreasonable in thinking "it is 100% this runner’s fault that I almost hit him". I'm sorry you didn't like my response, but in future I suggest you post on the "Please vindicate my opinion" forum rather than "AIBU" if you don't want to hear opinions contrary to your own on the very question you've just asked.

The fact is that, as a driver, you do owe a duty of care to more vulnerable road users, and that includes watching out for pedestrians/runners/cyclists//children/dogs and other hazards at all times.

You are being ridiculous. Perfect eyesight and all the precautions in the world won't make a person in dark clothing stand out in the dark.

You can buy packs of reflective slap bands which makes them transferable.

So I can’t leave my house and cross the road (no pedestrian crossing on average residential street) without a reflective jacket on so that some lazy sod can drive their climate destroying death machine to the corner shop cos a 5 minute walk is too much effort. And then people on here are claiming that the pedestrians are the entitled ones 🤔