To have expected more in life from working to reach this salary?

[grethrow]

I’m early forties and earn 75k. I know this isn’t huge money but it’s well above average salaries in the uk. I worked hard to get to this point (I’m not saying people who earn less don’t work hard).

I guess along the way I always thought I would be able to have a really comfortable life on this salary. I have one ds who is 11 but his costs don’t really factor in much as his dad pays for most stuff (ds lives with me so dad pays a decent amount).

I assumed going on holiday would be easy but renting a cottage in Devon in a nice area for a week is around 1,500, then there’s travel costs and food etc when you’re there! Going abroad long haul is extortionate. I guess these things are just about doable for me but it’s not easy.

I am having a privileged whinge. I know that. But I do feel sometimes like maybe at 18 I shouldn’t have bothered. My parents had a similar income (taking into account inflation) and me and my brother both went to independent schools, grew up in a large home and parents had very nice cars. It wouldn’t be possible for me to go and buy a nice car outright. I know people have it much worse but I still feel cheated and like it is a slog for very little, fair of me to feel this? Do others feel this?

I watched a local politics program yesterday which said that most young people in London are paying more than 50% of their salaries in rent.

Thats a very particular set of circumstances though, young people at the start of their working life living in the most expensive city in the UK. I’m not saying it ok, but it reflects a small proportion of the population and probably needs a city specific solution.

What is eccentric?

Pointing out that what actually matters for housing affordability is the cost of the monthly mortgage repayments, which comes from the interest rate as well as the headline rate?

That's not eccentric. That's just thinking about what things mean instead of blindly repeating a trope.

8 times salary in 1980 versus 10 times salary in 2010 - which is what the numbers show - isn't a significant difference.

I genuinely don't understand how you don't have at least 1000 left spare each month after bills and essentials. Our joint income is around 46,000, before tax, and we manage a couple of short breaks away each year, we have two cars.
Our mortgage is 950 and we make an overpayment. We don't get any benefits.
You must be spending a lot more than you realise on something.
Take home pay on your salary would be around 4,400

Ha!

OR op thinks that she wouldn't enjoy a "budget" holiday so she hasn't bothered to take her child on holiday for 5 years.

Poor kid.

The idea that the difference between 8 times salary and 10 times salary is merely a bit of a difference and not significant is eccentric, yes.

But the more important point is that the opinion you offer on that is irrelevant to the question of fact. You've admitted yourself that even this favourable example, ignoring other issues related to cost such as deposit access which clearly actually matters, still proves that the cost is more now. Your own numbers show that the thing you said wasn't true is. There aren't two opinions on that, which is why you're having to try and distract from the unfortunate truth by firing out personal takes.

I always used to be sceptical about Universal Basic Income but now I am a massive advocate for it. I think it would change everything.

Just for 'fun' I decided to put mine and my partners earnings and housing costs from 15 years ago into an inflation calculator.

2010: both earned around 30k , paying 600 (total) rent for a 2 bed flat in a desirable s manchester suburb.

Fast forward to 2024 with the sane economy we'd be earning £96k between us yet only paying £950 in rent.

Now that flat rents for about £1300 a month and although we've progressed our careers, ic we'd stayed at the same level we'd be on probably £38k me and £35k him.

So a £23k pay drop and £400 pm rent increase for the same circumstances.

So what you are saying is you expect to afford a super luxury holiday, rather than that it is impossible to find a holiday in your budget? I’m sorry OP but you are being ridiculous. £75k or equivalent adjusted for inflation has never been enough after tax to have massive house, cars, luxury holidays, designer lifestyle. That has always been millionaire territory. You cut the cloth to fit your budget. I am on similar salary to you and I took my family of four to Greece for an all inclusive week last Easter, it cost about £3k, all in. No it wasn’t millionaire luxury but it was a decent clean and relaxing 4-star resort. In the summer we went to Malta for three weeks, we had free accommodation, it still cost about £3k. But it’s doable. How are you not able to manage similar? This makes me fortunate compared to how many people are living. You are being unrealistic.

What do you think it would change?

If it was set at a level which meant that UC and pensions could be scrapped, wouldn't that just encourage yet more people not to work? Then where would the money come from for everyone to live?

How would it deal with the huge problem of different costs of living in different parts of the country?

We have just spent about £500 for a week in a caravan on the Isle of Wight next August. I am sure most children won't really care what holidays they go on other than that they do.

I took mine on a budget holiday during Covid. Flying was problematic but holidays within the UK were permitted. We had few options as so many were booked up. It was the worst holiday we ever had and I regret going. My child didn’t like it either. No holiday is better than a bad one.

What was rubbish about it? I used to set great store by holidays. Sometimes they were absolutely awful tbh.

We got a cheap deal in a Greek villa in the mountains last year. Everyone wants to be by the beach. It was beautiful. Self catering, so similar cost to home. Very cheap flights on a budget airline.

With kindness your experience is totally irrelevant.

You can't say that all budget holidays are crap, and it's better to not go, because you went on one and didn't enjoy it (during covid no less), without knowing what it was and why you didn't enjoy it, it's irrelevant, there are plenty of ways to go on holiday in the UK, that kids would love, that don't involve spending £1500 a week on a cottage in cornwall. OP is talking about that as a minimum spend requirement and a reason why she hasn't taken her child on holiday for 5 years, from someone earning £75,000 with outgoing that don't tally up to anything near the £4500 she's bringing in every month, it is just selfishness.

I hate the term 'budget holiday' anyway, a holiday is what you make it, if your parents prioritise your preferences over their own, it shouldn't matter where you are or what you are doing, or how much it costs, you can still have a great time and make brilliant memories, it is a perfect time to spend with your parents when they are at their happiest (away from the stresses of daily life), so if they won't bother to try and take you away anywhere because they knew they couldn't possibly enjoy themselves if it was less that £1500 a week.. it's quite sad for the children involved IMO.

Where are you getting those rent figures from? I was renting a 2 bed flat in a “desirable part” of Manchester up until a couple of months ago while waiting for a house purchase to go through. We were paying £2100 per month.

I think you’re being harsh on poor OP. She’s saying she is disappointed her life isn’t easier on her salary and she’s just being hammered. Instead of telling her to adjust her expectations, why isn’t everyone else raising theirs?

It looked great on the internet. We arrived and our room had 3 leaks - actively dripping. No room service but booked out for dinner. We had to go in the car to find dinner the first couple of nights. There were no other rooms available at all and certainly no upgrades so we lived with the drips. Everything was just a bit crap. The places we went to, and the weather were bad. We did make the most of it, but she is used to much nicer surroundings. Home is nicer. A bad hotel would be forgotten if the beach was nice, but it was so windy and cold that even the beach wasn’t an escape. There was a beach side carnival that was so dirty and old that it was just sad being there. She got an infection on her hand from one of the rides… it was just no fun at all.

OK, so your take home is about £4500 a month. Listing all the expenses that you have, plus another 500 contingency, that still leaves you about 2k a month. Holiday cost is spread over the whole year. Are you sure that you are really short of money and not just unable to accept what things actually cost/a bit stingy? Seems a real shame you’re denying your son holidays when he’s at the age that the two of you could have an amazing to together in somewhere like NY. Are you afraid to spend?

After all, do you really have any idea whether your parents owned their car outright, or had much in savings?

It seems to me that you are paying over the odds for bin bags (they are never cheapest in big supermarkets) but have a fixed idea that holidays are overpriced.

Grim

Have you properly priced up any package holiday deals abroad anywhere? They are not all tacky you know. Greece, Italy, Croatia? Basing your views on holiday costs on cottages in the UK is a false barometer.

And try less visited places. Albania, beautiful countryside, but very cheap and surprisingly a bit of a foodie destination. Or Uzbekistan. Expensive flights, but once there very cheap.
If you go the same places everyone middle class goes over the summer holidays e.g. Cornwall, it will be expensive. Be more adventurous.

Bahahahah. Albania.

Nope. Just don't.

There are cheaper places to go on a budget that are much better and while Albania does have some positives going for it, it's not somewhere I'd recommend. Seriously do not get sucked into this massive push on marketing for it. It's about five to ten years ahead of the curve. It'll get there but it's currently not for the faint hearted in search of a midrange hotel. I could give you a long list of reasons why but it's not for this thread.

(Yes I have been. The reality does not much the lovely insta perfect photos. Its interesting and I'm glad I've been BUT...).

@RedToothBrush I would love to know more. Would you be happy to start a thread?

This> '@strawberrybubblegum what your calculations ignore is that today’s buyer can’t actually buy the 1980 house at all, because it might be 15x+ their income in 2024. So they have to have a smaller home, or rent'

Plus the fact that you ignore the much longer terms that people are having to take on now because of lack of affordability and the key fact that we don't have 30 year fixed interest rate terms in the UK! Just because someone took out a mortgage at 1.5% in 2021, there is absolutely no guarantee that it won't be 5% or 10% at some other point in the term. The 5% has already happened within a couple of years. We await the 10%!
You really can't try to compare these different decades leaving out these three vital bits of information!

It really is incredibly different as @MidnightPatrol and my posts point out.