To have expected more in life from working to reach this salary?

[grethrow]

I’m early forties and earn 75k. I know this isn’t huge money but it’s well above average salaries in the uk. I worked hard to get to this point (I’m not saying people who earn less don’t work hard).

I guess along the way I always thought I would be able to have a really comfortable life on this salary. I have one ds who is 11 but his costs don’t really factor in much as his dad pays for most stuff (ds lives with me so dad pays a decent amount).

I assumed going on holiday would be easy but renting a cottage in Devon in a nice area for a week is around 1,500, then there’s travel costs and food etc when you’re there! Going abroad long haul is extortionate. I guess these things are just about doable for me but it’s not easy.

I am having a privileged whinge. I know that. But I do feel sometimes like maybe at 18 I shouldn’t have bothered. My parents had a similar income (taking into account inflation) and me and my brother both went to independent schools, grew up in a large home and parents had very nice cars. It wouldn’t be possible for me to go and buy a nice car outright. I know people have it much worse but I still feel cheated and like it is a slog for very little, fair of me to feel this? Do others feel this?

But the purchase price is only half the picture. Hardly anyone can buy a house outright, so what actually matters is how much it costs you in total, ie how much the monthly mortgage payments are.

And those amounts are almost the same (allowing for inflation) whether you bought in 1980 or 2010.

I don't think that's a coincidence. House prices rose because the low interest rates meant the total cost (and the monthly mortgage payment) fell for a given value.

What actually matters isn't the paper number on the house, it's how much the monthly mortgage repayment is. And that hasn't changed between the generations

Like I said, it's looking worse for buying in 2024. But that's because there's a time lag in how house prices change with interest rates. It's likely to balance out within the 25 year mortgage term.

Yes your 28K is suddenly someone else’s 56K, with no mortgage/rent outgoings

Which is £70k gross for one person.

in 1980 17.5m brits travelled abroad on holiday - so about a third of the population.

And that figure now stands at 52%, meaning, if foreign holidays are a measure of quality of life, a significant number of people do in fact have a better standard of life, by that one measure.

We all extrapolate from our own experience - that’s one of the ways we understand the world. In my case, coming from a pretty financially poor childhood, my lifestyle is much, much better than my parents at the same age. Maybe that says something about the capacity for social mobility in the 90s/00s, I don’t know.

There’s something distasteful about people who have a very privileged life complaining that they aren’t even more privileged.

Well no, actually the barriers to entry matter colossally, because they exclude people in a way that the total price over the period doesn't. But even then, your own numbers showed that the less important stat has still got more expensive in real terms. 8 times to 10 times to 15 times.

The housing costs are key though. For most people they're closer to 50 per cent of income than a third now

Actually statistics show that on average home owners in the UK spend 17.5% of their income on housing costs. Nowhere near most are paying half. Interestingly people in social housing pay the highest proportion of income on housing (approx 28%).

Safe area. Would you say Cannes, full of rich people at god knows what a night is safe?
Lord Shaftesbury, an Earl, was murdered there. There are plenty of other people, rich, or not, who disappeared or were killed in expensive areas.

Cost is no guarantee of safety. I’ve stayed in hotels in many places…even good areas have deals and I’ve never felt threatened. There’s nothing wrong with Costa del Sol and hotels can be cheap there with cheap flights to Malaga. I even had a long weekend with OH in the Lake District at £10 per night for the hotel. Look for offers.

Genuine question. Flights/food/fun on top of that?

Enter Trump and his lies

That's a serious bargain. I've been to France a fair few times and gites were hundreds of pounds a week.

Getting the deposit together is harder.

There are much tighter lending criteria now.

But that's not necessarily a bad thing. In 2019, there were 4580 repossessions. In 1987, repossessions peaked at 26,400.

https://ticfinance.co.uk/stats/

That will change per individuals/families. Is why averages don’t always work when assessing your own life.
Also what we spend on rent may be a third of our monthly income but then how do we save for a deposit on a house within a reasonable timeframe? People are ecstatic their houses are worth so much more nowadays then when they bought them, their children won’t be able to afford their own houses and the inheritance tax will swallow a chunk of that difference anyways.

That will change per individuals/families. Is why averages don’t always work when assessing your own life.

The previous poster claimed that for most people housing costs were 50% of their income. That’s clearly not the case by a long margin. Of course it will differ in individual homes but on average house owners spend less than 20% of their income on housing costs which means those spending 50% must be a small proportion overall, so not the norm.

I guess it falls into those mumsnet anomalies where £100k isn’t a good salary and a chicken can feed 5 people for a week.

People are ecstatic their houses are worth so much more nowadays then when they bought them, their children won’t be able to afford their own houses and the inheritance tax will swallow a chunk of that difference anyways.

Isn’t that where we are now? People were happy to see ridiculous increases in the value of their homes in the 99s and 00s and the this generation are now complaining they’re out of reach and will be even more so for their children. Not sure there’s a way to change that without significant losses on current home values, which would impact those sitting on a substantial asset.

We simply don’t have endless resources in time, money, housing, consumer good - there’s a huge gap between haves and have nots. I’ve improved my life chances immeasurably from where I started, I don’t think it would be possible in the same way now because everything is weighted against social mobility.

I think this generation is the first to really see stagnation in the middle class.

I earn 40k, OH earns 35k. We have 4 children under 16. We went abroad 3 times this year. We spend £150 p week on groceries. We have 2 cars, we live in a big city (not London) we save each month for each of our children.
£75k for a 2 person household should be more than comfortable unless you have accumulated lots of debt.

Yeah, it's nowhere close to most people spending 50%. The fact that some people have to spend much more of their income in order to get the same standard of housing as others is an absolutely essential part of the point here. Some people are fully exposed to the worst of 2024 housing costs, others not at all. A personal example: we only bought a few years back, and our mortgage is less than half what the private renters on the road have to pay now.

True, my housing costs were pretty low and came second to food so it's not made a massive difference to us, it's probably afforded us being able to go out. It was £312 per month for the repayment mortgage, a 2 bed terrace in the midlands, though when I rented a room in a hmo in the late 90s i worked out nearly 50% of my salary went on the rent 😳

I watched a local politics program yesterday which said that most young people in London are paying more than 50% of their salaries in rent.

The stats show that people overstate the difference in housing cost between boomers and millennial.

8 times in 1980 versus 10 times in 2010 is a bit of a difference, but hardly earth-shattering.

The barrier to entry is higher. But the consequence of lower barriers to entry in the 1980s was 6 times more repossessions per year, with devastating consequences for families.

The stats look more painful for people buying in 2024. But it's far too early to tell. If interest rates were to go back to 2010s level and stayed there, then they would have a similar total cost. Alternatively, they might be an unlucky 5 year glitch, with house prices gently deflating in real terms over the next 5 years (much more likely, with runaway inflation) and then those who have waited a few years will be in the same situation as if they had bought 10 years ago. Which is different but not materially worse than if they had bought in 1980.

I know this goes against 'what everyone says'. But you have to look at the actual numbers.

I think what the numbers do hide is the enormous difference between the SE and the rest of the country. I suspect that the situation is actually significantly worse than the 80s for the current generation in London and the SE - since house prices rose much more there - and better than the 1980s outside the SE (balancing how bad it is in the SE, to give that similar average over time the stats show). But you'd need to dig into the numbers to be sure.

The stats here show that the costs now are higher. You admit as much yourself. Those are the actual numbers, rather than your vague predictions and somewhat eccentric value judgements. Neither of these are relevant.

I would agree that the problem is worse in some areas of the UK than others.

It’s not about entitlement per se. It’s about entitlement in the context of hard work. I think if people work hard, do the right thing and don’t kick back for a life of benefits when they are capable of working, that the rewards should be there. Otherwise, why bother?

yes, that's why my adult DC are living at home!

Look, I agree that times are tough and there is a terrible housing crisis I just think the OP has leeway to go on a holiday and have some luxuries as her salary is entirely for her.

Admittedly I hate five star all inclusive and prefer small, quirky hotels. I also don't like posh restaurants and like to eat at dives and supermarkets.

The fact that some people have to spend much more of their income in order to get the same standard of housing as others is an absolutely essential part of the point here.

Absolutely, and geography plays a big part in that. I’m in Scotland, I couldn’t get a 1 bed flat in the south east of England for the value of the 4 bed house I live in here. Of course people need to live and essential services needs to be provided everywhere so it’s never as simple as moving somewhere cheaper. Any lower cost housing built sooner or later becomes part of the general market so soon becomes unaffordable again and so it continues.

Maybe her child wouldn’t enjoy a budget holiday?

Maybe her child wouldn’t enjoy a budget holiday?

Maybe her child needs to count their blessings. No 11 year old needs 5* luxury on holiday.