To call myself 'Mrs' even though I'm unmarried?

[DottyBaguette]

In the past I've used Miss/Ms. My preference is Ms, I think Miss sounds very young.

I've never been married. Two teenagers. Live with them in my own house, everything paid for by me as I've always worked and never had a man to depend on, I can't imagine ever risking my financial independence.

I've noticed that post 40, I'm almost always assumed to be 'Mrs'. School teachers, tradespeople, even the bank, refer to me as 'Mrs'. I used to correct it but now I can't be bothered. Why should men not be defined by their relationship status but women are?

So aibu just to let the assumptions continue and even start ticking 'Mrs' on forms, so I don't have to correct people who obviously think most women over 40 are 'Mrs'?

I tried to correct the bank, who seemed to think I'd need to post all sorts to get 'Mrs' changed to 'Ms'. So I left it, that was several years ago, so obviously the bank thinks I'm happily married...

This is getting more wrong with every post.

2018. A golden time. (Had successfully avoided arrest for 14 years at that point.)

Men can call themselves women but women can’t use a title with no legal gravity?!

which planet are you from?

Fraud 'to intentionally deceive someone, or to withhold important information to gain an advantage or cause a loss'. 'It can take many forms including making false representations'.

Which bit is false?

Miss - no legal meaning
Ms - no legal meaning
Mrs - no legal meaning
Mx - no legal meaning

So what difference can it make (gain?) using any of them as opposed to any other?

And why would it be okay for all men to use the same title but not all women.

I’ll wait…….

In most languages (eg French and German) nowadays, Mrs is used to refer to an adult female. Miss is a child. This is in line with men. My marital status is irrelevant to most people. I don't think it matters what you use. I am a teacher and a lot of children and some adults get them mixed up.

Wow, I thought you were going to say further back than that!

Though I don't know why, because this is a topic that still attracts an amazing level of made up law even in 2024.

I had a boss (I work in HR) that was horrified I hadn’t changed my name and was talking about illegal activity leading to disciplinary action. 🤦🏻‍♀️. I schooled them pretty quickly

I had a very similar situation when I got married. One of the partners was asking me had I contacted IT to have my email address changed, and I said oh no need, i'm not changing my name. He was horrified. Claimed it was illegal. For months after I had got married he called me Mrs HisName when he came into the office. This was in 2019.

Mrs is just a contraction of Mistress, the counterpart of Master. In older literary sources it was applied to women, married or not. If you don’t like it, you could always go for ‘Mx’, which is (apparently) a title used before a surname to refer to a person of unspecified or non-binary gender, so someone who doesn’t want to be Mr, Mrs, Miss or Ms. I’ve seen it on some forms. Personally, I think it’s horrible, but it is the only form I’ve seen which does not distinguish between men and women.

Mrs is for married, divorced or widowed women if they want to use it. You shouldn't use it otherwise. I am always known as Ms as I don't like the notion that men invented a terminology to enable them to identify which women to try and have sex with or discriminate against.

Bloody hell.

It's been fairly common since at least the 80s for academics and medical doctors to retain their original name for professional purposes (changing would mess up the publication record of the former) so would be Dr MyName at work but might choose to be Mrs HisName for other purposes - or not. I didn't choose to do that but several of my contemporaries did, without any problems afaik.

Can you link the specific law that dictates that, please?

You shouldn't use it otherwise

Why not though? There's no logic to it - just (recent) custom.

I would be interested in knowing what is taught to those learning English. My Ukranian lodger was always horrified if I asked if she wanted Ms on a form, as she wasn't divorced. She would not listen when I told her that was irrelevant. I'm not sure if she learnt that with the English she had before she came here (which was American biased eg she always called the garden a yard), or from her lessons here, most of which were the local college or British Council.

I never got into the fine tuning of what she regarded as "divorced". She sometimes referred to having had a civil law husband, which I initially assumed meant a common law partner, but from another conversation was clearly someone she had married in the equivalent of a register office, but not in church. Apparently she did not consider the ending of that marriage as divorce.

As a teacher and an older woman lots of kids and parents call me Mrs. I just leave it. I really don't care enough.

@ThatIsNotMyNameSoWhyAreYouCallingMeThat sorry, but I didn't mention the law? I didn't realise we were talking about law.
I share my opinions on here. Just like everyone else. Has my comment offended you somehow?

Absolutely. Because it’s based on utter rubbish.

Its not deceptive/important info as it has no legal baring and isn't anyone elses business to know.

What advantage was gained?

What loss was caused?

What was falsely represented?

You seem to lack basic understanding of law.

Claiming you are a bank representative (misrepresentation) when you are not to get personal info from someone (gain) to then have access to their money (loss) is fraud.

Calling yourself Miss Smith to a telemarketer when you are married absoloutly does not do any of that.

What you are talking about is equivalent to someone married not wearing a ring... it is not in any way 'law' that you must be Mrs or wear a ring. Its a choice you are free to make and not something all cultures even have.

I think OP was talking about people making assumptions about her marital status rather than her sex.

@ThatIsNotMyNameSoWhyAreYouCallingMeThat oh dear. How so? Of course if someone unmarried wants to call themselves Mrs that's up to them.

What you are talking about is equivalent to someone married not wearing a ring... it is not in any way 'law' that you must be Mrs or wear a ring. Its a choice you are free to make and not something all cultures even have.

Thank fuck for that. No rings, no married title, kept my own name. Was starting to think I’d have to go on the run (after 20 years).

Have you come across Mrs Crocombe? There is an historical reenactment part of the English Heritage website on which an actress plays the cook at Audley End in the late 19th century.

The reason I mention this is Mrs Crocombe was a spinster, but her title Mrs denoted her seniority within the staff. Mrs, like Madame in France, was not confined to married women. Women should still feel free to do the same.

PS
Mrs is the female equivalent of Mr. They come from Master and Mistress, both denoting a level of seniority in days gone by. Miss is a diminutive. I can see why many women don’t want to use it.

I'm not sure if she learnt that with the English she had before she came here (which was American biased eg she always called the garden a yard), or from her lessons here, most of which were the local college or British Council.

My US employer routinely referred to women (in formal contexts where a title was used,) as Ms X, so I would assume it's the British teaching, but that is an assumption.

I do remember trying to explain Ms (and therefore Miss and Mrs) to a Dutch manager. It was... painful. It didn't really make sense to him that it is so complicated.