How awful that much-loved 30-year-old son cut all contact

[soupsetpleasehelp]

I'm actually writing as I have a very, dear old friend whose DS has completely cut her off. He is in his early 30s and he grew up between his parents (in a different country so no risk that this is outing) after his dad left the mum, shared contact which is common over there. The dad has since then had numerous relationships, and was horrible towards my friend in the early days, and wouldn't provide enough economic support etc. All the main care really came from my friend.

Anyhow, she was always extremely close to her son and was (is) the most warm, loving mum (person) you could imagine. Her son was always her first priority (but I wouldn't say he was spoilt) and we, her friends, always used to meet up with him and he was super cuddly and loving with his mum. No wonder, she was always very encouraging. However, over the last few years he's gone into modelling and has had a few girlfriends, the most recent one who is from a wealthy family.

My friend's son has slowly cut contact from last Xmas until a hard cut off earlier this year. He kept bringing up old (what I would have considered normal experiences) from when he was a child, when he felt she didn't meet his needs with regards to taking him e.g. to the doctors immediately after a fall (she did the next day when he complained of more pain, he initially said it was OK) and he had a fracture. Well, I'm sure lots of parents would have been the same. She is the most far from neglectful you could imagine, a wonderful person.

My friend has taken onboard that perhaps she and her parents at times talked about her ex husband (the father) in not too rosy a terms but I don't think it was a bad case of it at all, just a few occasions (tbh we all knew how awful the father was to my friend).

I wonder at times whether he due to mental health issues is gaslighting his mum, and now that he is in the modelling world and with rich girlfriend and parents, he somehow is embarrassed about his mum (who is very overweight and lives in a small flat) and that this has created some sort of dissonance which have led him to almost create false memories of how awful she was when he was growing up.

I hate seeing my friend upset and I would like to offer to write a letter to the son (and perhaps to his girlfriend and her parents as they only have his word) as I know both my friend and remember seeing her son grow up from 0-5, then seeing them regularly almost every year until he was in his late teens/early 20s. She honestly is a natural with kids and the kindest friend.

I would like to hear from all of you out there that have been affected by this either as the person being cut off, or the person dropping contact. What would be the best way to approach this letter?

@NoisyDenimShaker It's so horrible, isn't it? I can't bear to think of all the poor little children whose parents are nasty to them. They're only little and they don't understand.

The worst part is that the kids think they DO understand. They think they deserve it. That they are fundamentally unlikeable, or not good enough in some way. They don't talk about it because at first it's normal, then later they are ashamed to have (as they think) brought this upon themselves.

It can take years to understand and accept that it's not your fault. And not everyone gets there. DH didn't see it until he had a child of his own so his mid 30s. I saw it in my family from pretty young, but assumed it was my fault until I read the Stately Homes threads on here. I have a friend who was in and out of social care because her father beat her badly but she's still convinced she deserved her mother not taking it seriously. God knows how long it'll take her. If she ever gets there. She doesn't approve of NC, which may be related.

Thank you so much. Actually I feel quite calm about this now. Before when I tried I got pulled back in with the guilt but what she did to my dd was the last straw. I didn't tell her it was because of my childhood abuse and subsequent adult abuse but she knows deep down. In fact part of the assault on my daughter was because I went low contact for a few weeks after having Covid and was really poorly but my mother told anyone who would listen that I was faking it to get out of family duties. Stupid cow. So she caught my dd off guard and unleashed so much venom onto her about me that when my dd had the courage to defend me my mother went ballistic. It was like a dark shroud falling from my eyes and my brain. Sounds weird but it was like I could see clearly for the first time. And you know what's even more validating for me some people that have known me for years and have seen how I've struggled have said they are so happy I've had the courage to do this. For the first time in years I wake up without an absolute dread and panic in me not knowing what mood she'll be in that day when she phones or asks me to pop over. Thank you for understanding but so sorry you do ❤️

Sorry OP for derailing your thread xxx

Ok, sure, but the question if what us right and proper doesn’t belong to you or anyone outside the therapy. This is my principle objection to your posts criticizing “the therapist” or “the bad therapist” or “validating therapist” —just because some person outside the therapy thinks they have the right to command a continuing relationship doesn’t mean the patient or the therapist has to take that seriously or that its the therapist’s job to act as brake or mediator for that relationship. That may be very much contraindicated. Its not for you to say a priori or hypothetically. It us for patient and therapist to work out over time.

But remember "everyone has the right to be respectfully heard", even if it forces someone to relive their trauma.

How vile of your mother, so glad you dumped her. Your poor husband.

That’s not what I was saying though.

I wasn’t sharing an opinion on any particular situation , or suggesting that the therapist should act as a mediator on behalf of someone outside of the therapeutic relationship.

What I objected to was the idea that a therapist should always support their client in carrying out whatever actions they feel are warranted, regardless of the context. To me that’s not the role of a therapist and could potentially be quite harmful.

To do Tandora justice that is not what she meant by that remark. She was trying to agree with me about the therapist’s duty to the patient. That statement came within our back and forth about the duty of the therapist.

Again, I’m not sure what conversation you think you are participating in but it doesn’t seem to have any relevance to the one I’m involved in 🥴

Yes you have said, That Is why I am discussing it with another poster.

Thank you for explaining.

I’ve just read back over it.
You didn’t.
FWIW, from my perspective, you were the first to be ridiculed, belittled, insulted and piled upon. You’ve have your words twisted several times whilst at the same time, I read you repeatedly showing empathy and compassion for posters who shared some of their horrific stories growing up.
You then apologised, and got kicked again.

It has really been quite uncomfortable to read.

What I objected to was the idea that a therapist should always support their client in carrying out whatever actions they feel are warranted, regardless of the context. To me that’s not the role of a therapist and could potentially be quite harmful.

For someone who complained about black and white thinking this is such a black and white thing to say. Nothing always happens. In therapy. No therapist always supports every idea a patient floats.

But estrangement isn’t even in the top ten crazy things patients may want to try. Its certainly not the most harmful or irrational thing patients want to discuss. there isn’t some special carve out or forbidden or dangerous act, estrangement, that patients need to be kept from doing because its “so harmful.” Its not drinking, cutting, abusing another person, or a suicidal act. Its something—as MANY people on this thread have pointed out—patients come to at last, not at first. It would be very improper, therapeutically, to push my ideas about family harmony or reconciliation on a patient who expresses a desire for a particular resolution.

Thank you so much.

I really didn't mean to upset any victims of child abuse, and I'm feeling my conscience being disturbed at the thought. I thought my opinion was reasonable, and I thought I'd been clear about being supportive of NC after abuse, but perhaps it's hard to hear things as they were meant, through all the trauma.

I think it may be you that doesn’t get it. What you quoted was one small part of my post. There was context there.
Im simply saying that people should be careful about using their own pain to justify hurting other people. It is a slippery slope.

For someone who complained about black and white thinking this is such a black and white thing to say. Nothing always happens. In therapy. No therapist always supports every idea a patient floats.

I didn’t say this is what I think always happens!
It was you who stated that was your role- to support the client in what they thought was warranted- I questioned that. Thats how this whole conversation about therapy started.

I can see that, as I am sure others can.
Some people who have been through traumatic experiences I guess can find it hard to relate to an alternative view point. They may reject it viscerally, because it’s too painful for them to consider it. I understand it - although I believe it is a reason rather than an excuse. They may end up channelling all their pain on to the person who is simply sharing their alternative experience.

FWIW, I posted up thread about considering going NC with my mom around the time my son was born. Or at least speaking to her about all the horrible things she did. Those things probably would be considered to be pretty damn awful to people reading. Yes, she used to slap me and call me stupid. Yes she left me largely to fend for myself from a domestic standpoint from a young age. Yes she did leave me unattended at a public swimming baths and I nearly drowned. Yes, she didn’t seek medical help for me when I had heat stroke on holiday.

But guess what else? She also lost two babies when they were 5 and 7 months old
Her Mother treated her horrifically
Both her husbands were abusive towards her - physically and financially.

She always was and still is in a lot of pain. And MY DECISION (not saying that anyone else should do this if they don’t feel comfortable with it) was not to add any more pain in there by either telling her what a terrible mother she was or by dropping her completely. I recognise that she tried her best. I recognise that I grew up to be very resilient and independent. She has many redeeming qualities that I like to think I have inherited. Forgiving her, privately, has been very healing for me. I wouldn’t say we are close, but we have a relationship.

Forgiveness is for you, not for the people who hurt you. We are all trying to navigate our way through this crazy, weird life… all trying to avoid pain and upset in whatever way we feel we can with whatever tools we have at our disposal. Very few people fit neatly in to ‘good’ or ‘evil’
When I had this epiphany a while ago, I felt like I had exorcised all of the pain I had ever experienced and it was very freeing for me.

Thats just my experience, anyway.

I have a pretty good memory for this discussion. The back and forth occurred because you challenged the anodyne practice of a therapist validating a patient’s experience and asserted that this could be harmful if it was an automatic validation or support of a specific plan of action such as estrangement.

I have consistently said that validation/support is a process within therapy not a kind of one and done approval or disapproval that the therapist grants (or withholds) from the patient. Remember way upthread I said a therapist is not a priest, a professor, or a policeman . My patients are all witting adults with full faculties—they may have trauma, depression, OCD, etc..but they aren’t fools and they don’t need me (or you at long distance) to keep them from foolish overreaction. If they want to consider estrangement it is not from some kind of juvenile folly.

Regarding the situation @soupsetpleasehelp and her friend are in, there are 4 possibilities (that I can think of) going on.

1/ That the son has gone NC for good reasons and that the friend is not who the OP thinks she is. I can understand how awful it might feel to discover a friend is an abuser or enabler or otherwise toxic. Of course it's hard for OP to accept.

2/ That the son's mental health issues go beyond an eating disorder and he is in delusional or paranoid territory. He does sound quite unwell, I think this is a real possibility. A decent therapist may not be able to diagnose but they should have enough awareness to know that maybe a psychiatric assessment is warranted. Therapy alone may not be able to help someone who is disconnected from reality.

3/ That the girlfriend is the problem and she is the abuser who is trying to drive a wedge between the son and his mother, isolating the son. This is something abusers often like to do to their victims.

4/ That this is a reverse maybe? Or a goady "aren't the youth of today so narcissistic" post. I don't know.

Omg thank you for this post. I was typing out something similar in the context of the therapy conversation I was having with that other poster; but then deleted it. This resonates so much with my own experience.

I actually had one therapist who I felt was very strongly trying to push me into a perspective of othering / demonising my parents. That I should see them as fully responsible - to blame for my childhood- and maybe I should? Maybe she felt I should go NC? But something inside of me just rejected that, because what I saw were complex and flawed individuals , navigating their own traumas, who could have done better perhaps, but who also weren’t fully in control / didn’t necessarily have the resources to do so. Maybe that’s helpful a perspective that is continuing to hinder me, or maybe it is healing, I still don’t really know... But I digress. Reading your experience laid out like that is so helpful

I said “can be like that sometimes.” Not that all are all the time. Boomer men do come from a much more entitled and sexist era, and IME can sometimes look down on women as being domestic and less important.

I’m not understanding why I should re-evaluate that. I can’t very well change my observations.

The back and forth occurred because you challenged the anodyne practice of a therapist validating a patient’s experience

Actually my use of the particular word “validation” came after the back and forth had already started.
In any case, wherever we started , I suppose doesn’t really matter does it. I agree that a therapist is not a priest , a professor or a policeman 😝, is that from a book?

Yes I felt exactly the same way!
I saw my mother as a vulnerable woman who certainly didn’t have anywhere near the access to resources and information I have now when she was my age, unwittingly and completely unconsciously taking her pain and hurting me with it.
I don’t want to do that to people. I didn’t want to take my pain and inflict it right back at her by telling her that her one, healthy daughter that grew to adulthood thinks she was a lousy mother. I am now a grown woman and have full agency over who I am and how I behave. I don’t want to spend my life blaming my mother for my flaws otherwise I will never try to fix them!
Anyway sorry, I am rambling now 😂

You stated that they were the head of the household this wasn't always the case.

Omg you are not rambling. This is so incredibly insightful and healing to read. This type of reflection on navigating relationships through complex intergenerational trauma . Can you be my therapist please 🥲 . I am so tired I can barely think straight right now but im going to save these reflections and come back to them , especially the last part on not weaponising your own pain xx