How awful that much-loved 30-year-old son cut all contact

[soupsetpleasehelp]

I'm actually writing as I have a very, dear old friend whose DS has completely cut her off. He is in his early 30s and he grew up between his parents (in a different country so no risk that this is outing) after his dad left the mum, shared contact which is common over there. The dad has since then had numerous relationships, and was horrible towards my friend in the early days, and wouldn't provide enough economic support etc. All the main care really came from my friend.

Anyhow, she was always extremely close to her son and was (is) the most warm, loving mum (person) you could imagine. Her son was always her first priority (but I wouldn't say he was spoilt) and we, her friends, always used to meet up with him and he was super cuddly and loving with his mum. No wonder, she was always very encouraging. However, over the last few years he's gone into modelling and has had a few girlfriends, the most recent one who is from a wealthy family.

My friend's son has slowly cut contact from last Xmas until a hard cut off earlier this year. He kept bringing up old (what I would have considered normal experiences) from when he was a child, when he felt she didn't meet his needs with regards to taking him e.g. to the doctors immediately after a fall (she did the next day when he complained of more pain, he initially said it was OK) and he had a fracture. Well, I'm sure lots of parents would have been the same. She is the most far from neglectful you could imagine, a wonderful person.

My friend has taken onboard that perhaps she and her parents at times talked about her ex husband (the father) in not too rosy a terms but I don't think it was a bad case of it at all, just a few occasions (tbh we all knew how awful the father was to my friend).

I wonder at times whether he due to mental health issues is gaslighting his mum, and now that he is in the modelling world and with rich girlfriend and parents, he somehow is embarrassed about his mum (who is very overweight and lives in a small flat) and that this has created some sort of dissonance which have led him to almost create false memories of how awful she was when he was growing up.

I hate seeing my friend upset and I would like to offer to write a letter to the son (and perhaps to his girlfriend and her parents as they only have his word) as I know both my friend and remember seeing her son grow up from 0-5, then seeing them regularly almost every year until he was in his late teens/early 20s. She honestly is a natural with kids and the kindest friend.

I would like to hear from all of you out there that have been affected by this either as the person being cut off, or the person dropping contact. What would be the best way to approach this letter?

NC often happens with a whimper, not a bang

Mine happened when my mum bit my husband. Which she found charmingly eccentric and quite rated herself for.

😱

This thread is awash with offence and personal attacks and from what I can see, they’ve all come from one direction.

The poster that you’re all piling on has even apologised (which, in my opinion, was completely unnecessary- she was only stating her POV on the subject as you all were) and you are STILL kicking her.

You don’t have the monopoly over having hurt feelings, you know? That poster you’re attacking also has her story and it’s no less upsetting than yours or anyone else’s. She doesn’t deserve the way she has been spoken to. Being triggered by something or having experience trauma, whilst horrific, does NOT give any of you the right to speak to people in this way. How do you know you’re not triggering her right back?

It’s the irony for me - you all being so unbelievably nasty to someone to defend your personal upset over someone in your life being unbelievably nasty to you.

Hurt people hurt people. That’s what they do. The more you carry your hurt around with you, the more you will hurt others. The people who hurt you were probably hurting also. That’s not an excuse, it’s a reason. And now you are hurting, and in turn are hurting others. That’s what happens when we carry these things around with us. The more we try to avoid people like the ones that have hurt us by using these tactics, the more we become exactly like them.

Look: tandora. You have your experience with your therapist and Esther Perel but that is limited and personal and you simply don’t have a lot of insight or grasp of the entire profession or our duty to our patients. In addition, despite your personal experience of CSA , you don’t have enough experience or insight to speak to what other victims may or may not deem necessary for their own health and safety.

Each adult person in therapy has the right to be respectfully heard and counseled with their best interests at the heart of the therapy. The interests of other adult/non dependent persons do not take priority over the patient. the happiness of patents, grandparents, spouses or adult children do not take priority over the health and safety of the individual patient. Individual therapy is not family unification therapy.

A friend of mine believed as you and NoisyDenimShaker do,* *they are now in a situation were their parents are abusing them through their children.
The reason that they now don't go NC is because the Grandparents have got inside the grandchildren's heads that it will be their parents fault.

On soupsetpleasehelp's chart they would have been down the right hand side.
And yes they all went to therapy.

Good answer.

*The poster that you’re all piling on has even apologised (which, in my opinion, was completely unnecessary…
That poster you’re attacking also has her story “

here here.

It's been a looong thread, and I'd have to go back and read, because I don't immediately recall much of it. I don't think I did though? I thought I'd been clear that imo abuse of any kind is a great reason to cut off contact.

I might have listened more earlier not for all the downright personal attacks.

So I “lack” “experience”, “ insight”, and “grasp.” And my posts/perspectives/opinions are “odd” and “funny”.

Each adult person in therapy has the right to be respectfully heard and counseled with their best interests at the heart of the therapy. The interests of other adult/non dependent persons do not take priority over the patient. the happiness of patents, grandparents, spouses or adult children do not take priority over the health and safety of the individual patient. Individual therapy is not family unification therapy.

I never suggested anything of the sort.

What I suggested was it isn’t necessarily in the best interests of the patient / at all therapeutic to support them in whatever behaviour they think is warranted .
I fully stand by that.

Everybody absolutely has the right to be respectfully heard.

Can't really make out the meaning of your last sentence, but anyway, I thought I had a reasonable opinion, and I was very clear that abuse is a great reason for no contact and that my opinion wasn't aimed at those who had cut off for that reason. Also your ability is understand is curtailed when under an absolute onslaught of character assassination and insults like cunt, coward, selfish, insufferable, patronising, unempathetic, no wonder somone is NC with me (not true) and on and on and on. People shouldn't expect to get the best out of a poster like that, and nor should they be surprised when they get it back.

Any of my mums friends could have written this. They have no idea how emotionally cruel, neglectful and selfish she could be. Some of the things she did to me and my brother were awful but so many people think we've cut her off without any justification. The truth is, she cut us off but makes out like she's begged us to see her and has been abandoned. She dropped me when I found out she's been faking cancer. You don't know all the sides of this, be very careful.

@soupsetpleasehelp

But Tandora and the NoisyDenimShaker- as I've read through the messages - have not said that yours (or others') views aren't valid

Dear GOD. So because YOU don't feel I've been invalidated, I haven't been?

Yep, ok.

#headdesk

Well, I did say 'often'!

@NoisyDenimShaker - but before you were called whatever, you were offensive to people. They TOLD you. You didn't get the backlash out of nowhere. Your actions have consequences.

Your response and the last few just show such a huge gulf in your understanding of people's feelings and what you're allowed to judge and interfere on. @pikkumyy77 may have more patience than me, but I can't be bothered any longer. We've all tried to get through to you but you just don't understand what we're trying to say, which is why it's hard to have a mature debate. We're talking about apples and you're responding about oranges.

You think you're right. Great, crack on. All we can do is sigh and move on without you.

In the same way that you have re-evaluated your stance on the thread you may want to re-evaluate this as well.

OP, what exactly do you find frightening or alarming about this chart?

I’m looking at this and not seeing any “if they annoy you or you can’t be bothered with them, just go no-contact.” Quite the opposite - it stresses trying to repair relationships and set other boundaries first, potentially reducing contact but not breaking ties when someone’s behavior is distressing but not abusive, and giving people opportunities to understand the affects of their behavior on you and make changes. And even in cases of abuse when patients decide no-contact with the abuser is necessary it suggests maintaining relationships with supportive, non-abusive individuals in the family when possible.

I get that the idea of there being some nebulous social media forces to blame this on is appealing; your friend and her son are just victims of these terrible people that way. But the idea that there’s some dramatic increase in young adults cutting off wonderful, loving, emotionally stable parents at the drop of a hat is fiction not supported by data. It’s a boogeyman being created by the same internet you’re blaming for putting ideas in the son’s head.

@Errors

you all being so unbelievably nasty to someone to defend your personal upset over someone in your life being unbelievably nasty to you.

Apples v oranges. No, that's not what we're defending at all.

You just don't and seemingly won't get it.

@Tandora

Everybody absolutely has the right to be respectfully heard.

I have seen this in remedial justice sessions in schools.
What actually happens is that the bully or abuser gets to abuse their victim all over again.

Nobody should have to relive their trauma, no matter how "respectfully" it is heard.

I've already posted here. I had a very abusive childhood to the point where by today's standards I would have been taken away from my mum. I'm a 70s baby so the sa and pa started in the late 70s. I would have defended my mum to anyone well into my adult years. As an abused child you can have this warped idea that it's 'normal' in some families. You're told enough times that you're the problem so you think you deserve what they are doing to you. It wasn't until I had my dd at the young age of 21 and started to see my mums way of parenting was actually against all my maternal instincts. I still sought my mums approval for the next 20 years. Even knowing she was still abusing me mentally as an adult I didn't think I could ever just cut her off. That to me was like betrayal. After all her and my step dad had bought me my first car. Had taken me on holidays. We always had presents at birthdays and Xmas time. I was a fed and clothed nicely. All these things were a show. I've had several breakdowns over the years and many times wanted to just move away and never see her again but then she'll do something so lovely that my internal dialogue will tell me I'm awful to think that. I've had friends kindly tell me that I shouldn't put up with her behaviour. This year came a massive shift. She hurt my eldest daughter mentally beyond anything I ever thought she would do. She then went around the family saying what a victim she was and how awful my daughter was to her. My dd is the sweetest kindest person I know. My mum ranted at her so much my daughter collapsed in a panic attack and then she proceeded to stand over her and call her all the names while laughing at her. I know this as my daughter was on the phone to me and I heard it all. That night I told my mother she's crossed the line and I will never have her in my life again. Of course she's the family matriarch or she thinks she is so everyone is flocking around her. That's fine. The only person that really knows my mother is my aunty who witnessed something many years ago but was too young to do anything about it. Shes not spoken to my mother for years. So really I'm saying to everyone it looked like I adored my parents. I was always at her beck and call. I never said no to her even at the detriment to my own health which she knew about. But now I'm free and I cry for that little girl that lived through all that. It's not always as flippant and sudden as some people on here think. Many of us are worn down worn out and want to heal away from the toxic environment x

Not sure what relevance this comment has to the discussion we were having.. ?

I'm sure that you don't, maybe you should think about it for awhile and come back.

How rude 🙄.

Your comment had no relevance to the discussion we were having about therapy, which involved no comment about restorative/ remedial justice / mediation practices .

That is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

I appreciate that

@WingingItSince1973 wishing you and your daughter all the best. I get it