How awful that much-loved 30-year-old son cut all contact

[soupsetpleasehelp]

I'm actually writing as I have a very, dear old friend whose DS has completely cut her off. He is in his early 30s and he grew up between his parents (in a different country so no risk that this is outing) after his dad left the mum, shared contact which is common over there. The dad has since then had numerous relationships, and was horrible towards my friend in the early days, and wouldn't provide enough economic support etc. All the main care really came from my friend.

Anyhow, she was always extremely close to her son and was (is) the most warm, loving mum (person) you could imagine. Her son was always her first priority (but I wouldn't say he was spoilt) and we, her friends, always used to meet up with him and he was super cuddly and loving with his mum. No wonder, she was always very encouraging. However, over the last few years he's gone into modelling and has had a few girlfriends, the most recent one who is from a wealthy family.

My friend's son has slowly cut contact from last Xmas until a hard cut off earlier this year. He kept bringing up old (what I would have considered normal experiences) from when he was a child, when he felt she didn't meet his needs with regards to taking him e.g. to the doctors immediately after a fall (she did the next day when he complained of more pain, he initially said it was OK) and he had a fracture. Well, I'm sure lots of parents would have been the same. She is the most far from neglectful you could imagine, a wonderful person.

My friend has taken onboard that perhaps she and her parents at times talked about her ex husband (the father) in not too rosy a terms but I don't think it was a bad case of it at all, just a few occasions (tbh we all knew how awful the father was to my friend).

I wonder at times whether he due to mental health issues is gaslighting his mum, and now that he is in the modelling world and with rich girlfriend and parents, he somehow is embarrassed about his mum (who is very overweight and lives in a small flat) and that this has created some sort of dissonance which have led him to almost create false memories of how awful she was when he was growing up.

I hate seeing my friend upset and I would like to offer to write a letter to the son (and perhaps to his girlfriend and her parents as they only have his word) as I know both my friend and remember seeing her son grow up from 0-5, then seeing them regularly almost every year until he was in his late teens/early 20s. She honestly is a natural with kids and the kindest friend.

I would like to hear from all of you out there that have been affected by this either as the person being cut off, or the person dropping contact. What would be the best way to approach this letter?

People might have missed it, but a couple of pages ago Gannet described the thought process that she was going through when making the decision to go NC/LC with her parents.

I was surprised about how much uncertainty there was, because people who have gone NC seem so confident in their choice and never seem to look back. She described the voice in her head that was tugging at her sleeve, like a conscience saying what will people think, how could she leave her elderly parents, etc. and suddenly I understood how what I was saying mimicked that, even though I meant it about hypothetical people who might NOT have been abused.

If someone had given that insight instead of calling me a cunt and god knows what else, it would have helped.

Its funny that you think “validation “ is somehow facile or that it means approval for estrangement. In fact as people have repeatedly pointed out abused children and adults have a really hard time even recognizing that the situation as abusive, naming it at all, and then choosing estrangement. People take years to tell their therapist what is actually happening—then they can take years excusing it and blaming themselves.

Validation for a patient comes as part of a long process, a very painful and embarrassing process, of opening up family culture and events and behavior that the patient has endured without being able to recognize as odd or abusive. Its not some kind of cheap ploy or cheap absolution for an addiction or a crime. And in any event its not a crime to estrange from family.

@Tandora

In other cases it may be a selfish/ self-involved and callous act that causes immeasurable suffering to others.

Then it is up to the third party to take offence and do what they feel necessary. It is not up to a third party or some stranger on the internet to suppose of someone else's situation.

Awful typo! I meant - it is up to the person who has been cut off who is offended to do something. Nobody else.

Well, I'm sorry I triggered you. And I am SO SO sorry for what you endured a child.

Fuck the 80s. We've made a lot of progress since then. I don't have any stats, but I DO HOPE that there is less child abuse in the home these days, due to a more enlightened era and due to ease of abortions (like pills) so that people who don't want to bring up children aren't forced to have them. In theory, those things should help.

Its really nice that you had that epiphany and I also think that your reflection and response upthread was really well done. But you basically spent two thirds of the thread calling everyone else misguided and just plain bad people, defending bad people, when plenty of people were baring their souls to explain in great detail why they disagreed.

@Tandora

But equally your role is not to simply validate them in whatever their perspective on a situation is.

Um, from my experience, it 100% is. But you'll disagree because you don't have the nuance...because you don't seem to believe someone's perspective of FEELINGS are default validate. It seems you think they're always up to debate according to your set of rules and values.

My therapist will ALWAYS believe and champion my FEELINGS AND PERSPECTIVE. The nuance here is that she WILL question my interpretation that has led to my feelings.

No decent therapist would say "nah, you have no right to be angry at them". They would say "I hear and believe your anger". Feelings are never up for debate.

It's not our job to give you emotional intelligence, unfortunately. And that, coincidentally, is a huge reason why people go NC. They've whacked their head against a brick wall and just can't face explaining any more. They're exhausted and they just leave.

NC often happens with a whimper, not a bang.

Please query why tends of us didn't tell you...but there's one of you. Common denominator probability?

Thank you for this! I've been reading this thread from the beginning, as I have a vaguely similar situation. I have been horrifyingly fascinated by the behaviour of a poster who has dominated the entire thread, but unable to put a name to their behaviour. My relative does this to me. Pushes, tramples, makes cruel comments, then when you finally react she plays the victim and wails about over sensitivity and bullying. I am glad to see that it has a name. Weirdly.

What a wonderfully honest and helpful post.

I think - to quote from your post "It’s tragic as young/younger people are being taught that they don’t need to work at or repair their relationships any more." is exactly right.

The number of people I've heard of in the last few years - as opposed to my previous 50 - who have decided to go NC with friends/acquaintances because their friends are a bit 'draining' 'seeing themselves as a victim', is quite sad.

What happened with talking it out, trying to sort things out, finding a way.

I salute you for your honesty and I'm glad that you feel you've made the right choice not going NC.

Thanks for the book tip too.

Oh no, another person who has not read all my posts...

I don’t think “validation” is “facile”- why did you infer that?
I myself am a victim of CA and have done many, many years of therapy - enough to know that what the process involves . I am concerned that you found my previous comments “odd”.l and “funny”.

A therapist I really look up to is Esther Perel. (May have spelled that incorrectly). For me she navigates the really complex role of a therapist with brilliance, insight , challenge and empathy.

And also to paraphrase Stephen Fry and Gervais (for those that think people sometimes cutting people off worsens society's moral fabric and it's all so selfish and offensive):

"You're offended? So what?"

Reading your latest posts I know you didn’t mean to. It’s just I get so many people saying .. but it’s your Mam and she is old, let it go. I just can’t.

I inferred that because it was implicit in what you said.

@manifestthis - to that old chestnut, I like to say "and I was her CHILD"

Cuts both ways

Best of luck to you xx

If you read my posts I have been very clear to draw a distinction between feelings and behaviour.
Feelings are entirely personal , behaviour is different - we are all accountable for our treatment of others and it is not the role of a therapist to support their client in whatever behaviour they believe is warranted,

No it wasn’t.

From what I have read, the most offended are the ones that think going NC with their parents should NEVER be questioned.

Don’t write it, the best thing you can do is support your friend listen to her but don’t take it on board too much. It’s not good for you. Encourage her to keep the door open. Keep up contact with him texts cards etc
all contact from her to him should be neutral and non-accusatorial. I know it seems unfair but his story is different and maybe he hasn’t got narcissistic tendencies too. She needs to keep her door open and her mouth shut.
from experience of a similar situation, the best course of action just love her and support her

It's not our job to give you emotional intelligence, unfortunately

was that necessary?

@errors - no, the "dumpers" are not "offended". They are at a point where to have XYZ in their life is an impossibility. This isn't "disgust" or "allergy to blasphemy". They cannot LIVE with it. That's way beyond "offended".

@Tandora - yes, it was necessary and not meant in a mean way. There's a theme amongst the "dissenters" of there being a small missing link, a nugget that isn't understood that I think is the key to you all understanding the rest of us.

Look at your last comment to my post re feelings and behaviours. Your last paragraph is talking about something I'm NOT talking about. It's a cross purpose; and as I said recently to Noisy, when you keep trying to explain and you get a wall back, people just walk off.

Which is what I'm doing now. Tens of us have tried to get through to (plural) you, and we all give up. Maybe that means something? Maybe you can't view our feelings the way they should be? Maybe you cannot validate us?

That's fine. That's you. But it doesn't mean we need to stick around for it.

And there's an IRL NC. If you don't get it by now, you never will.

But Tandora and the NoisyDenimShaker- as I've read through the messages - have not said that yours (or others') views aren't valid, they've simply been vilified for having a different opinion.

I've found this 'shutting up' of diverse opinions rather sad to see, especially on this thread.

There’s a lot of “us” versus “you (all)” in these posts which is a form of black and white thinking which isn’t very helpful to relationships.