To expect parents in mid '70's to host Christmas with very young children?

[Birminghamx]

I’m one of three children , all of whom have two children. We’re all in late’30’s, early ‘40’s. Two, three years ago my elder brother and I hosted Christmas for our parents in turn, both feeling it was the time for the mantle to be passed to our generation. Our parents are in reasonable health but have some issues and of course have slowed a lot. We knew our parents enjoyed the ease and lack of responsibility when we provided Christmas. My sister is unlike us a single parent and last year invited herself for Christmas with her then 5 months old and just 2 year old and the baby was fractious throughout the 5 day stay. None of us live near one another and a Christmas visit means staying over. Our parents made light of it but I know through my mother’s friends that she was so exhausted after the stay that she cancelled engagements for a couple of days.

Now our sister has invited herself again and my brother and I think this unfair. Our parents are making light of it again and say they need to support her more as she’s single (though by choice). In fairness she can’t host as her flat is too small and our parents book hotels when they visit. Neither my brother or I can host parents and sister but both of us are prepared to invite her for New Year to try and resolve this amicably.

My parents are of sound mind so of course the decision is theirs. However I know they’re affected by an unpleasant breakdown in the wider family (niece/cousin) and are terrified of an estrangement with our (frequently difficult) sister.

Do you think my brother and I would be unreasonable to try and intervene, expressing our views to parents and sister that the proposed arrangements are too demanding on our parents. Our sister has already tried to counter arguments by saying they can buy “easy meals” and eat out (at my parent’s expense), though the reality is this matters little to the strain. Do you think we’re unreasonable in regarding mid ‘70’s as too old for hosting Xmas for several days with very young children?

Going for the day, with a two to three hour journey each way, and toddlers, would be a nightmare, surely.

Many families get round these things by staying nearby but not in the same house.

This is why hotels and self catering are booked up fully around Christmas.
So families can be together but not on top of each other.

You, your brother, your sister and your parents might like to think about this and club together to fund the cost if you chose a self catering house.

I don't think, on the other hand, that your parents being knackered after hosting your sister and her children is unusual or anything to get too worried about.

I have friends almost 70 who do a lot of childcare, helping their children out, including overnight stays. They are often 'tired' and need a day to recover, but don't find it too much on balance.

If your parents find it too much they are the ones who need to draw a line under this.

But at the same time your sister must be tone deaf if she can't appreciate that 5 days is far too long.

Mylittoexmas, how do your parents feel about it, have you asked them? You did hear from someone else that your mother found Christmas tiring but that is often the case with young and old people. When I used to go back to work after Christmas, loads of colleagues would be moaning and many had had flaming rows.

I do think five days is a bit much but sister may have nowhere else to go.

You cannot really judge the situation without knowing how your parents feel, they may want her to go.

Ooh, your tone absolutely drips condescension towards your sister. How could she help it if her 5 mth old was fussy? Sounds like you'd rather not have her with you at all.

Couldn't she find accommodation for herself and the children?

I think you and your brother sound lovely, concerned, caring adult children to your equally lovely sounding parents who clearly want to do tbe best fir all of you. My only thought is that it's your par ntts' friends wbo have mentioned they were so exhaustef they had to xancel stuff for a frw days afterwards... honestly that's not that unusual fir people 'recovering' from a busy Christmas', even much younger people. Your sister's children wi be a year older and may be at the very lovely, cute stage and perhaps yoyr parents really want them to know their maternal grandparents are there for them, a stabilising presence in their life perhaps? Could your parents' friends be subtly criticising you and your brother, making you both feel guilty even for abandoning your parents to your sister, as they see it, without understanding or knowing the full picture?

Well if SIL is adamant she and her kids are coming for 5 days and won't take into account her parents feelings about it - then over the Christmas period they will need to down tools every now and then to rest and do nothing. 👹
If SIL complains, then they let her know that they are tired and taking a break and she will need to prepare tea or whatever. If she won't cook then she orders in a takeaway at her cost.
So, if they must do this then they can push back when they need to - Mum and Dad between them can plan what they will do such as breakfast or whatever they need for themselves or nip out to the shops once or twice and enjoy a meal out - leaving SIL at home.
Alternatively if they don't want any falling out over the festive period they can menu plan to the nth degree and buy in everything within their budget - ready to shove in the oven as it were. Five days menu planning isn't so bad - and one day of those will be a roast dinner or whatever Xmas meal they like. Maybe cold meats on Boxing Day with crusty bread and pickles.
They are hosting but not with the mosting!! SIL will have to step up and not sit around expecting to be waited on and hopefully Mum and Dad will enjoy their GCs visit.

Some people have a hide like a rhinoceros and just won’t take a hint, so if the daughter has decided she’s coming for five days, there’s not a lot the parents can do if they want to avoid a falling-out.

Yep, @sesquipedalian, we’ve experienced this in our family too. DH’s brother was pushing their parents ( in their 80’s) to go on an active sightseeing holiday this summer and just wouldn’t accept their protestations that it was too much.

In the end, DH had to phone him and explain that they really weren’t physically or mentally up to it anymore (MIL especially gets confused) unless he (brother) was prepared to organize everything and chaperone them. He soon backed off!

I do think that five days is a long visit with small children and it’s a shame that the sister doesn’t realize/accept that it’ll wear her parents out. In the OP’s shoes though, I’d let it go this year and see what happens. If their Mum is exhausted again, it would be reasonable to point out that Mum was worn out after Christmas so that her sister thinks about this next year.

I’m 50 and while most of my friends/relatives are very supportive of our parents (most of whom are 80-plus), the odd person still surprises me with how much they expect.

I don't think you're making this any better! Honestly it sounds like you and your brother think that you are much better people than her, care about your parents more, are more capable of looking after your children long term etc than your selfish, difficult, volatile sister who is somehow simultaneously acting the loving mother to her children and achieving well in her career.

It just doesn't really stack up. It looks as though she has always been the scapegoat of your family 🤷🏻‍♀️

This with bells on

Don't forget the active social life with people queuing up round the block to host her for Christmas, despite being universally known as difficult, selfish and controlling.

Not sure why you’re getting such a hard time OP your sister sounds like a complete arsehole.

@HelloWorldItsNiceToMeetYou I agree that a nice Christmas with the grandparents will be great for her sister and children. But should she expect them to run around after her to the point that they’re worn out?

It needs to be a balance. Adults can’t expect older people to do everything just because they have young children.

My Dad’s the opposite, he puts his feet up as soon as I and my family appear. 😂

This would be a great solution if my brother and I didn'tt have in laws to also accommodate.

My parents have an invitation to visit either my brother or I for Xmas day.

She says she has her in laws visiting, and can't host both lots of parents at the same time? So she's either contradicting herself or she's assuming her parents will stay in a hotel and just visit them in the daytime for christmas day? or she's lying about them being invited to her, either way her sister wouldn't be welcome at either of theirs, so that is obviously limiting their parents options.

If I was OPs parents and it meant denying my single daughter with two small children a chance to visit for a few days and spend Christmas with us, so I could go and visit one of my other children (but only for the day then I've got to shove off), then I'd stay at home too and have my daughter to stay for a few days.

Christmas is about more than just one day OP.

Probably too late this year, and would be lonely. In a PP I suggested they (in future) all rent a big place local to parents so the younger generation can muck in and the parents relax.

Apparently a big part of the problem is that the 5 month old was fractious last year. That's now a 17 month toddler and older siblings will be a pre schooler.

From the tone of the OP's comments she appears to believe that only children of single parents were fractious.

From her info we are only coming up to the 3rd year where OP's parents didn't host. So it sounds like the OP and her brother were hosted when their kids were littles by parents in their early 70s. However now it's you get sister's turn it's just too much for them. And sis hasn't got a partner to help.

I would imagine the parents don't want their daughter who has, from the sound of it, an exhausting life as a working single parent of two, to have a lonely Christmas with noone to share the load.

The snobbery and disdain for the he sister ooze out of the OP's post and it's horrible.

If your parents are anything like mine, they would give a kidney before seeing their children and grandchildren spend Christmas alone. Even if they find it tiring, they probably love it. And they most certainly will prefer Christmas with their grandchildren over social engagements with friends, which they can do all year round.

And whether or not your sister is difficult and takes the mick, is for your parents to decide. You intervening will make it worse for everyone.

Agree with this.

However they all will do as they please regardless of what you say. So stay out of it. Just enjoy your own pleasant Christmas.

OP....as you've said you haven't written this post well, but I for one know where you're at and
it's hard for anyone to understand how you feel unless they're living/lived it.

Unfortunately there's not a lot you can do regarding your Dsis, while your parents are on this earth.
In my case it was the parents burying their heads in the sand, bowing down, putting up with siblings behaviour hoping it'll lead to a quiet life, there was no "quiet life" and they never owned up to it to sibling, but they knew in their hearts it was true, they told me enough times. They regret enabling siblings entitlement in being the one that was to be tip toed around, included in everything but never made/asked to help/contribute anything.

Now pretty much alone sibling has few friends, they've all got fed up with listening and know to well "the other side of the story", unlike yours though they feels it's not their place to work and we refuse to fill parents shies in stumping up for them, which didn't go down to well

And to the person that said something along the lines of commenting that no parent would admit their DC wouldn't be a good parent in the future mine did, years later regarding sibling, exact words to me were "their ex was a waste of space but then they were no better themselves"

But...answing your question can you have Christmas at your parents this year, do the helping out/catering but you and yours book a hotel, doesn't have to be high spec, just somewhere to rest your head and to get away to in the evenings and have time as a family alone.

Oh dear, that went right over your head, didn't it?

My in laws are similar age as your parents and in very good health. They do get more tired when they are outside of their usual surroundings (typically they only do overnight visits to family)even if there are no kids involved. I believe travel does get a bit harder as you get older even if it’s to your own kids and you’re fully catered to. Last year we had to go to a wedding for a couple of days with them and by the third day my FIL looked liked he’ll keel over and won't make it till the end of the week. Within a couple of days of getting back home he looked like a completely different person.

We always used to go to my FIL's home for Xmas and he did most of the cooking.
Once he was older my DH took over the cooking (with DSIL and I covering some of it) but we still went to FIL's home because he liked everyone to gather there. We just cooked there but it was a bit of a pain as we had to often pop home if had forgotten something. Some of FIL's cooking equipment was a bit rubbish.
Could you and/or your DB go too and do most of the cooking?

I’ve got a difficult brother who also struggles to keep relationships sweet both personally and professionally. There’s a lot he’s gets wrong, but ultimately he is my brother and my responsibility because I love him, even if he can be a difficult sod, he is ours.
I’d never want him to be left out of a family occasion. Maybe he won’t ever change, but I’ll continue to love him and include him always. Family is family, he ain’t heavy and all that.
The real meaning of Christmas is to extend kindness and love, especially so with difficult people as they need it the most.

I agree on all the positives and yes you're right as I reread it it does sound clinical. I do work in the caring professions and that doesn't help. I think it's mainly though that I've been trying to sort out the conundrum of my sister for 25 years, so many positives and so many real difficulties including personal behaviour that would astound members of her profession. My mother and I have read much on autism, personality disorders etc without finding anything that properly fits. Easy for you, on the scantiest of evidence you blame me but thinking about something for so long probably does make you sound detached and clinical

The parents' house is small. This problem seems to be as much about distances and accommodation size as the black sheep sister. OP needs to start working on xmas 2025, because, without an accommodation booking or an extension, they'll have the same problem every year.