To expect parents in mid '70's to host Christmas with very young children?

[Birminghamx]

I’m one of three children , all of whom have two children. We’re all in late’30’s, early ‘40’s. Two, three years ago my elder brother and I hosted Christmas for our parents in turn, both feeling it was the time for the mantle to be passed to our generation. Our parents are in reasonable health but have some issues and of course have slowed a lot. We knew our parents enjoyed the ease and lack of responsibility when we provided Christmas. My sister is unlike us a single parent and last year invited herself for Christmas with her then 5 months old and just 2 year old and the baby was fractious throughout the 5 day stay. None of us live near one another and a Christmas visit means staying over. Our parents made light of it but I know through my mother’s friends that she was so exhausted after the stay that she cancelled engagements for a couple of days.

Now our sister has invited herself again and my brother and I think this unfair. Our parents are making light of it again and say they need to support her more as she’s single (though by choice). In fairness she can’t host as her flat is too small and our parents book hotels when they visit. Neither my brother or I can host parents and sister but both of us are prepared to invite her for New Year to try and resolve this amicably.

My parents are of sound mind so of course the decision is theirs. However I know they’re affected by an unpleasant breakdown in the wider family (niece/cousin) and are terrified of an estrangement with our (frequently difficult) sister.

Do you think my brother and I would be unreasonable to try and intervene, expressing our views to parents and sister that the proposed arrangements are too demanding on our parents. Our sister has already tried to counter arguments by saying they can buy “easy meals” and eat out (at my parent’s expense), though the reality is this matters little to the strain. Do you think we’re unreasonable in regarding mid ‘70’s as too old for hosting Xmas for several days with very young children?

This all sounds extremely difficult for your parents. I agree with you that at 70+ it’s too much to expect them to host small children. On the other hand they’re probably worried about your sister having a lonely Christmas if they don’t have her to stay. Then there’s you and your brother, who they also feel an obligation to accommodate.

Honestly, the kindest thing to do would be to encourage them to head off on a Christmas cruise and enjoy the sort of festive break they would probably prefer.

Suggesting that your sister and toddler nieces should spend Christmas alone or shoehorn themselves into a friend’s family is a pretty reasonable basis for being considered a villain.

Nothing you have said subsequently makes that statement come across any better.

It sounds like your sister is very difficult. She's not going to listen to what you say and shorten the visit. Your parents will be tired after but they'll recover.

Another reason to stay out of it is that the children want to be with their grandparents that day. The focus can be on them.

Being very intelligent and not getting on with people aren't incompatible. She's also very focused which fits in with her high achievements and the steam roller she uses when other people get in the way. She has fallen out with employers big time, however her high qualifications get her back into work (sometimes she's been freelance). She has now been with the same employer for four years which is a big improvement. It's the only sign we've seen of motherhood stabilising her personality to some extent. we haven't yet seen it with family relationships but more stability in one area may lead to another. I'm hearing your cynicism of what I'm saying but I know I'm on solid ground

I agree that early 60s isn't elderly and I didn't say that it is, but OP's parents in the 70s are elderly especially considering her mother had to cancel planned events to recover. My mother is waiting for a double knee replacement so she has mobility issues which prevent her ascending and descending stairs. I'm glad your experience of being an adult with an aging parent has been one where your parent has been healthy and active.

I think that grown adults expecting their parents to host them is an absolutely awful way to behave. Grown children should host parents not the other way around.

I'd be interested to hear the sister's perspective.

I'm the childless single in my family and I'm aware that my siblings all call me difficult, mostly because I don't agree with them that the only point of me earning money is to spend it on their kids. My parents cut me out of their will as I'm the only one who won't (can't) have any children. I don't spend Christmas with any of them, so I spend it alone and they all have a lovely Christmas altogether.

But I'm sure in their eyes, just as in yours, it's perfectly justifiable.

I go to my mum´s with my husband and kid, but my mum alzheimer´s means I do the hosting in her house, and she helps with little things she can manage. She instructs me to do her xmas shopping/prezzies.
Can´t your sister do most of the hosting in their house? Before being sick my mum also used to get tired but loved family get togethers. She would´t have missed them for anything, knackered or not.

I would stay well clear if I were you.
Your parents will not want to see their daughter and grandkids spend Christmas alone. You and db are unable to include sister and kids. It's your parents choice.
I may have felt the same as you when I was younger but now I am mid fifties with grown up kids, I see that you still want the best for them and feel a responsibility towards them

For all those saying it’s the parents’ choice, actually, it’s not. Parents want to see their children, but the DD here has proposed staying for five days, and I completely understand why the parents don’t feel they can say that three would be enough - they fear provoking the daughter’s wrath, and also that she might turn round and say, fine, I won’t come at all, then. Some people have a hide like a rhinoceros and just won’t take a hint, so if the daughter has decided she’s coming for five days, there’s not a lot the parents can do if they want to avoid a falling-out. I don’t think the OP is at all unreasonable in wanting to speak to her sister, but I fear it won’t do any good and might simply provoke acrimony. As for the parents, no-one wants to think they’re past it - I’m sure that, given a choice, the parents would prefer to be hosted by the OP or her brother, but as the DS has invited herself for a Christmas, I don’t see that there’s much to be done.

Grown children should host parents not the other way around.

Tell my mum, in her 80s. She was invited but wants us there.

And it seems like OP's parents are happy enough to host the sister and her kids.

Well, it is absolutely none of your business! If you had a good relationship it might be worth saying to her 'do you think 5 days is going to be a bit much for mum and dad' and then actually listening to why she wants to go for 5 days. You don't have a good relationship and you're not going to listen to her point of view, you're not going to persuade her of yours, so that conversation would just be a way of creating more hostility between you

Lots of people are a bit tired and rundown at that time of year it’s winter it’s cold, depressing and there’s loads of horrible bugs flying about maybe you’re mum was knackered in general?

Anyway it’s not your place or your business to insert yourself into and start telling people what to do. Your parents are only in their 70s and yes, while they’re getting older I’m sure they’re capable of deciding what’s best for them when it comes to whether to spend Christmas with who they want. You mention your sister is “difficult” OP. Are you sure you just don’t want to exclude her because she pisses you off?

Why isn't it your or your brothers turn to have your parents this year?

They stayed at home last year and hosted your sister, so why didn't either of you not invite them to you this time?

You just appear worse with every post. Talking about her career in terms of "big improvement" and what "we've seen" about her personality "stabilising" sounds like you're writing a child's report and is beyond patronising. This is a highly independent single mum working a demanding career whilst raising 2 children with nothing but criticism, judgement and an expectation of failure from her family.

Oh, I hope you have a really lovely indulgent day @fitzwilliamdarcy. Or travel somewhere interesting & warm and away from all the smug marrieds.That is so cruel of your family to think that way.

I had something a wee bit like that happen to me about 30 years ago (not as bad, but still ...), and after that, I made a promise to myself that I would never be dependent on anyone for a nice time at Christmas ever again. It was horrible. I make the arrangements which suit me now!

She lives in a 1 bed flat. Do you want her to bankrupt herself to buy a bigger house so they can stay over once a year?!

I think your parents hosting at this age is perfectly fine. You were ok with it up until 3 years ago and there’s more of your family to host than hers. Of course they can’t see her on her own and yes she may have a big circle of friends but they may be with their families over Christmas.

I realise it's quite hard for anyone to see the dysfunction in their own family - we're all fish swimming in it - but I can't emphasise enough how fucked up it is that you and your mum have discussed what a terrible mother of teenagers your sister, currently the mother to two toddlers, will be and how much better you'll be at it

I've not read all the posts but have scanned yours.

It's quite hard to follow TBH because a lot of what you've written isn't really relevant and is more of a family history.

and your first post didn't clearly state what the dilemma was this year.

If your sister is intending to stay with your parents, surely it's up to them to decline that or not?

You could have a word with your sister and say they find it hard (but aren't telling her in fear of hurting her feelings.)

But then of course, where does she go on her own for Christmas?
Maybe you or your brother should host and your parents could stay at a hotel for a couple of days?

I don't think in principle that adults in their mid 70s are too old to cope with 2 young children for 2 days.

One option which is too late for this year I assume, is to rent a massive Airbnb or similar, (able to take 10-12 people) and all of you go there. This often works for multi-generational families and also everyone can come and go as they please, once Christmas day is over.

She says that both she and her brother have invited them. That’s the point- she wants her parents to put their feet up at her or her brother’s house, instead of hosting her sister.

I don’t think you can intervene really. If your sister is not taking notice of one of her own parents suggesting a shorter visit then she certainly won’t accept it from you or your brother. It will just create bad feeling and unwelcome drama which will also upset your parents. Ultimately, it is your parents that have to set the boundaries. If they don’t want the kickback from this they will opt for appeasing their daughter. It might feel worth it to them. Most parents care for their children, no matter their problems or how difficult they are. They won’t want to hurt her, or for her to be alone, or struggling, especially at Christmas.
Your situation, even without the updates, was recognisable to me from my in laws extended family. That was dealt with by them saying they preferred a quiet Christmas alone.
It might be better for you to just listen to your parents rather than get actively involved in complaining about your sister. They may then come to their own decisions about how they want to handle this. I would try to avoid accidentally stirring the pot or thinking that it is your problem to solve.

My sister is unlike us a single parent

the baby was fractious

Can you not see how judgemental some of your comments are?!

There might be a connection between fractured family relationships and family members who stage interventions to stop other family members spending time with her.

You're considering effectively trying to make your parents disinvite her but say she steamrollers people?

I'd love to hear the other side of this.

No! I expect her to not go and impose on her parents hospitality for 5 days with 2 young children.

Going for the day or even 2 would be ok if she helped out. And provided her parents were willing.