To expect parents in mid '70's to host Christmas with very young children?

[Birminghamx]

I’m one of three children , all of whom have two children. We’re all in late’30’s, early ‘40’s. Two, three years ago my elder brother and I hosted Christmas for our parents in turn, both feeling it was the time for the mantle to be passed to our generation. Our parents are in reasonable health but have some issues and of course have slowed a lot. We knew our parents enjoyed the ease and lack of responsibility when we provided Christmas. My sister is unlike us a single parent and last year invited herself for Christmas with her then 5 months old and just 2 year old and the baby was fractious throughout the 5 day stay. None of us live near one another and a Christmas visit means staying over. Our parents made light of it but I know through my mother’s friends that she was so exhausted after the stay that she cancelled engagements for a couple of days.

Now our sister has invited herself again and my brother and I think this unfair. Our parents are making light of it again and say they need to support her more as she’s single (though by choice). In fairness she can’t host as her flat is too small and our parents book hotels when they visit. Neither my brother or I can host parents and sister but both of us are prepared to invite her for New Year to try and resolve this amicably.

My parents are of sound mind so of course the decision is theirs. However I know they’re affected by an unpleasant breakdown in the wider family (niece/cousin) and are terrified of an estrangement with our (frequently difficult) sister.

Do you think my brother and I would be unreasonable to try and intervene, expressing our views to parents and sister that the proposed arrangements are too demanding on our parents. Our sister has already tried to counter arguments by saying they can buy “easy meals” and eat out (at my parent’s expense), though the reality is this matters little to the strain. Do you think we’re unreasonable in regarding mid ‘70’s as too old for hosting Xmas for several days with very young children?

Quite.

Just looking at this again, it doesn’t tally with what you said later, which was that you and your brother invite your parents and your in-laws on alternate Christmases.

Let’s say:

2021: Your brother had your parents. You had your in-laws.

2022: Your brother had his in-laws. You had your parents.

2023: your turn to have your in-laws again. Brother invited your parents but they chose to stay at home with your sister. Brother’s inlaws went wherever they normally go when not your brother’s turn to invite them.

2024: it’s your brother’s turn to have his inlaws again. So how can he have invited your parents?

(and if you were the one who had the parents in 2021, same scenario but in reverse- fact remains that only one of you has space for your parents this year unless your statement about alternating with the inlaws is untrue.)

OP has felt the need to mention it several times. And "although a single parent she is the extremely well qualified and earns a good salary." Judgy much?

Oh and @Birminghamx , I'm so glad you are on hand to step in when she fails at motherhood in a few years. Despite the fact she's been nothing but loving and caring towards her daughters at this point, you know that it's only a matter of time before she shows she's a terrible mother really. Thank goodness you can save her kids from the horrible Mum she's going to be in future.

Your MIL sounds fab. That's kind of my plan too.

I see it in a different way, often people think single carers are financially disadvantaged and the OP was saying she was coping well. Surely it’s good to be well qualified.

I wonder how she's managed to gain these qualifications and earn such a good salary, despite apparently being incapable of having good relationships with her employers and falling out with everyone all the time.

Oh stop being obtuse. The implication wasn't that it isn't good to be well qualified, it was that the sister, being so professionally successful despite apparently being unable to get on with anyone, has no needs regarding her family. As you know. And there's no way anyone could miss the judgement in "single by choice".

The sister seems to be a woman with a track record of difficult relationships, both her parents and two siblings have experienced this, her employers and possibly her partner. People like that do not usually change much and while someone can be a good mother in early childhood, teenage years need different skills for the rebellious years. It’s telling that the grandmother is expressing concern about this.

I have a brother and sister (all early 40s) and I'm the poorer one in the situation. I'm the only one with kids too so no way would my mum not wants us.

What exactly are you suggesting? That the sister spends Christmas alone? Your post is very unclear.

What!!!??

The sister seems to be a woman with a track record of difficult relationships

Despite having a wide social circle according to OP.

I didn't finish.

What did you usually do if that Christmas was so tiring?

You need to have a word with your sister about her making an effort to help your parents when she stays. And I don't mean sponging off them for takeaways or meals out. Could she stay for less days perhaps? Or offer to cook for your parents?

Whether the sister is accomplished, established and advantaged or whether she's a raging nightmare who has driven everyone away with her innate and inexplicable awfulness seems to depend on whichever one best supports excluding her at Christmas.

OP I very much doubt your two nieces will lean on you and let you be there for them as teenagers when you've been so horrible to their mum and are actively trying to exclude them all from family Christmas. They most likely won't even know you

Same. My in laws are in this bracket and love to host big family gatherings. I’m the one who finds them exhausting and I’m in my 30s!

I think OP needs to treat her parents like grownups rather than trying to interfere with their Christmas plans. They’ve made plans with your sister. You don’t like the plans and I can see why from your perspective, but I think reconsider intervening when they’re 85.

Also, mentioning a five month old baby was fractious for five days last year is so mean! Surely that’s a reason your sister needs her family around for support, not a reason she should be alone? Not to mention the fact that a year has gone by and the child will now be a 17 month old toddler. So still full on but a completely different scenario.

Schrödinger's arsehole @NonPlayerCharacter

Except in every single post the OP has been judgemental and condescending about most aspects of her sister's life so I doubt that comment was made out of admiration.

I don't think it's the age so much as the anticipatory anxiety of her being nasty or hard work whilst she was with your parents. They feel obligated to have her but simultaneously, dread it. I'd feel the same in their shoes regardless of age. Not sure why you're getting such a hard time on here OP. YABU to think their age is the problem rather than your troublesome sister.

Everyone has those difficult people in the family. Sometimes close, sometimes more distant. I bet your mum’s willing, for the sake of relationship, to cancel a few days of engagement. My mid70’s mum gets tired like that without any family drama but loves having us. They won’t cope for too many more years, but I’d leave it while they can. They will decide when it’s too much. Your sister’s kids are babies now. The grandparents won’t want to miss the special times with little ones at Christmas. Just try to be there for your parents before and after the holidays. You could maybe help them make some freezer meals the weekend before or something. Holidays can be hard, but family is important. Some frustrating times and exhaustion are worth putting up with to certain limit. Everyone’s limit is different, but I’d let your parents decide theirs. On deathbed, no one will ever say they wish they hadn’t had so and so over for Christmas.

Well the context helps me understand much more and I genuinely sympathise with you. In all honesty, I don't think excluding your sibling will help family relations, only because it will stress your parents and exclude your nieces. If money isn't an issue, could you offer to book/pay for a room for them in a nearby Premier Inn or something. That way, they're included but away to their accommodation overnight?

Hosting is hard work, which can be very rewarding and good fun, but it does involve extra shopping, cooking, cleaning, laundering of bed linen/towels etc - in the UK in winter, just getting stuff clean and dry is no small feat! Not surprised if your parents, in their 70's, find it a lot when it involves boisterous young children, who may also be hyped to the gills because it's Christmas.

You say your sister earns a good salary - why can't she stay at a hotel/Air B&B with the children overnight and visit during the day? 5 nights is a lot of hospitality for anyone to offer - the saying about guests and fish stinking after 3 days is a pertinent one! (We had lots of day visitors last Christmas, plus overseas visitors staying for a couple of weeks - I felt run ragged at times, and not a little lacking in seasonal good will on occasion, which I kept to myself, but I think I might draw some boundaries around future requests to host.)

This thread is such an eye opener! OP, you sound exactly like my sister, she had always tried to stop my mum from spending time with me, demonising me all the time. Our relationship was permanently damaged to the point that when she died I had no contact with her. She had sent me messages pleading for communication but I've blocked her on my phone due to the nature of our relationship. I didn't know until it was too late!