To expect parents in mid '70's to host Christmas with very young children?

[Birminghamx]

I’m one of three children , all of whom have two children. We’re all in late’30’s, early ‘40’s. Two, three years ago my elder brother and I hosted Christmas for our parents in turn, both feeling it was the time for the mantle to be passed to our generation. Our parents are in reasonable health but have some issues and of course have slowed a lot. We knew our parents enjoyed the ease and lack of responsibility when we provided Christmas. My sister is unlike us a single parent and last year invited herself for Christmas with her then 5 months old and just 2 year old and the baby was fractious throughout the 5 day stay. None of us live near one another and a Christmas visit means staying over. Our parents made light of it but I know through my mother’s friends that she was so exhausted after the stay that she cancelled engagements for a couple of days.

Now our sister has invited herself again and my brother and I think this unfair. Our parents are making light of it again and say they need to support her more as she’s single (though by choice). In fairness she can’t host as her flat is too small and our parents book hotels when they visit. Neither my brother or I can host parents and sister but both of us are prepared to invite her for New Year to try and resolve this amicably.

My parents are of sound mind so of course the decision is theirs. However I know they’re affected by an unpleasant breakdown in the wider family (niece/cousin) and are terrified of an estrangement with our (frequently difficult) sister.

Do you think my brother and I would be unreasonable to try and intervene, expressing our views to parents and sister that the proposed arrangements are too demanding on our parents. Our sister has already tried to counter arguments by saying they can buy “easy meals” and eat out (at my parent’s expense), though the reality is this matters little to the strain. Do you think we’re unreasonable in regarding mid ‘70’s as too old for hosting Xmas for several days with very young children?

I haven't read the whole thread, but I have read the OP's posts.

I'm not clear on the situation: who usually stays where with whom when your parents host Christmas dinner? I thought I had it, then you mentioned in laws staying...

The crux of things though is, if your parents find having people to stay with them and hosting too much, can you not muck in to do things like prep the bedrooms - often this involves moving furniture around as well as making up beds - and so on?

You want to exclude your sister and her children at Christmas??

You moan about her baby acting like a baby?

You talk about to her other people negatively?

You assume there will be problems with her children even though you have no real basis?

Maybe she should cut you off.

I saw no evidence of the OP being judgemental about her sister being single.

You don’t like your sister that’s all there is to say. everything else is just fluff.
And this repetitive worry about the nieces and their teenage years that’s just weird.

Some people in their mid-70s are fit as a fiddle and would be totally fine with this. Some aren't and wouldn't. Nobody here can judge without knowing your parents whether it will be too much for them or not.

I really think this has to be between your parents and sister. It will likely to be too late for this year to book anything, but if this recurs next year, maybe you could all agree to have Christmas dinner at a restaurant/hotel with the whole family?

My sister has literally screamed at my father that she hates him, this was just for trivial reasons and she was 29 at the time.

You've mentioned this twice. Which implies that either this is your GOTCHA to say how awful she is, or there aren't actually that many examples.

If you really think she has a PD, it could be good to work out why. Typically trauma. She may have had a very different childhood to you, a very different life. And you might not know all the struggles she's had.

My brother is a total arse. But my parents wouldn't see him alone at Christmas. Because they are lovely. He isn't, they are. I accept that because they are grown-ups and they are even older than yours.

To clarify: You are only able to have your in-laws or your parents stay with you over Christmas, not both, so essentially room for only one set of guests. This is the same for your brother.

This year you both have in-laws invited so your parents could not be invited over for the restful Christmas you’d like to provide them with. In lieu of an actual invite you think the next best thing is to intervene in plans they’ve made to host your sister and her 2 small children and get her to seek an alternative solution that involves asking friends to invite them over or to stay at home - this is so your parents avoid her perceived difficult behaviour and that of her children, including 1 child who when a year younger was fractious and found it difficult to settle.

You believe your sister does not deserve to be welcomed by your parents as she has had been argumentative in the past, she has decided to be single and so has chosen to bring up 2 children without additional support, she has friends so can lean on them at the busiest time of year for people to be hosting their families. Oh, and finally, you do have some sympathy for her daughters and think you need to keep close to them in years to come as you’re sure your sister will end up being an unfit mother - difficult and argumentative with them too even if she is not displaying this right now.

I wonder if it written out like that can make you see how cold and judgmental you are towards your sibling? I’m sure next year you and your brother won’t be having an open discussion with your parents and sister to offer an invitation for Christmas. I’m equally sure you wouldn’t want to arrange anything that made possible a full family Christmas get together. Quite simply you don’t like your sister, your brother doesn’t either and you don’t think your parents should either.

That's quite the drip feed presumably as people aren't agreeing with you - now she's a screamer with a personality disorder?!

And this shouting at her father seems to have happened over 10 years ago.

Once again the non-specific comments about how you believe that your sister will be an unfit mother when her children are older. It’s abundantly clear that you believe she should never have had children. You hark back to an argument with your father that happened before she had kids, when she was almost ten years younger. People change you know, and they often change significantly when they become parents.

It sounds like you are locked in a fixed view of your sister and are unwilling to contemplate that she might have matured.

Look, there clearly are family issues here. The answer does not, however, lie in Mumsnet telling you that “mid seventies is too old to host small children for Christmas”. You are looking for an excuse that is far too generic and simplistic. You need to dig deeper to find a solution that works for your family, but you should try to do so without falling into your habitual animosity and distrust of your sibling. So, for example, you have a word with her about pulling her weight, you don’t encourage your parents not to invite her and scaremonger about how they will be damaged by the experience. And you don’t bitch behind your sister’s back about how she will be an unfit parent in the future.

(Oh and the general consensus is that mid seventies is absolutely fine for hosting grandkids and that being a bit tired is normal and usually considered worth it).

I would have expected the offer. The grandparents could then enjoy the grandchildren whilst getting some respite from the cooking etc.

YABU
It’s your parents choice to have your sister & family over for Christmas and so what if it is exhausting so they have a rest afterwards. It is up to them which takes priority- their daughter & grandchildren for Christmas or “other engagements”

It is lovely you and your brother host them, but your sister isn’t in the same privileged position to do so. If you really are concerned about your parents, get a local cottage and also join your parents and sister for Christmas at your parents. You and your DH can help with the cooking, cleaning, - hosting sister in your parents home. Plus your DC will get to play with their cousins.

That’s uncharitable and underestimates the real problems families have in dealing with a very challenging member.

Your update paints you in an even worse light. Incredibly judgemental and pedantic towards your sister. I wonder what her list would be about you. Being with her parents at Christmas is not her using them. Get over yourself sharpish. You sound actually jealous of her.

As a pp mentioned her mil was going back packing around the world at this stage of life. Everyone regardless of age finds the Christmas season exhausting especially if they are hosting. Your parents will no doubt find hosting your sister & children tiring but it sounds like they wouldn't have it any other way. Your update explained the behavioural issues involved although given she is a single parent with 2 young children,highly qualified with a good sallary she must also have her good points. I'd try to accept the situation & enjoy the day.

@Coffeeloverme I am LC with my brother. I could play Difficult Family Member Top Trumps allllllll day long, believe me.

It's very clear from OP's posts that they are bonded over criticising the sister, whether she deserves the ire or not.

I can't imagine your parents being happy that your sister and kids would be sat on her own at Christmas, when try could be with family. Even if it is tiring!
You done appear to care too much for your sister.

And maybe she cancelled arrangements that we less important to her than spending time with her children and grandchildren, and less important to her than making sure her daughter didn’t spend a Christmas alone with a baby and toddler.

Let it lie for this year because it's all arranged but next year chip in together for an air BnB somewhere in the middle of you all. That way your parents get to see everyone but theres more adults to deal with the kids.

I was just thinking this. My parents always host Xmas and they're mid/late 70s. Never been an issue and it's what they prefer. I'd not suggest that they've as much energy as a 30 year old but they don't struggle with it.

I’m sorry you’re having such a bad time with this post and it seems unfair. Lots of people claim to be a “black sheep “ and it sounds interesting and rebellious. Coping with a real difficult family member is a completely different matter and you have my sympathies. I agree you should have given more context in the original post but despite that it looks as though some people are enjoying a witch hunt against you. Sorry for that as you seem a caring person and the fact that your sister is having problems with relationships in different contexts speaks volumes.

@Birminghamx I'm trying to get my head round what you are saying too. So your Brother and Yourself, in your separate households, alternate between having your in-laws with you one year and your parents the next. Which means that your parents would normally come to either you or your brother every year and wouldn't be hosting at all

Yet you have said that 2 years and 3 years ago your parents really enjoyed being with you or your brother, which sounds like before that time, you all went to theirs? Would that be right?

So why can't whoever was due to have your parents this year go to your parents instead, and do the cooking etc for them? along with Sister staying and her children staying there too.

I have a sister who has always been very difficult - but to be fair she would say the same about me, I'm pretty sure. In fact since my Mum died we don't have contact at all. The thing is her behaviour towards my Mother latterly was pretty shocking to an old lady in her 90's. Mum would complain to me about lots of things about my Sister and how much she hurt her etc, but all would be forgiven when my Sister made occasional contact. Annoyed me intensely, since I was doing a huge amount in the way of caring responsibilities and my Sister none!!

My Mother too, had already lost another adult child, who cut themselves off and died young and all of us only found out from reading in the paper that she had died. My Mother was not an easy person to deal with, but you know, Parents usually still love their children no matter how much they may actually dislike their offspring's behaviour and no matter how much their children hurt them.

Your parents will still love your sister and not want to see her spending Christmas on her own with two young children. If you really want to help your parents, you and your Brother need to find a way to help them spend Christmas relaxing - and that will have to include including your difficult sister in those arrangements? If you are as concerned about your parents, as much as you say you are, then I'm sorry, but you and your Brother need to work something out which works. Inviting your sister for New year won't cut it

The sibling who died once told me, when asked if they would possibly ask Mum to their's one Christmas as I had to put up with her every year. Her reply was 'I'm not having her spoil my Christmas'. Very selfish. Your attitude and that of your Brother to your Sister sounds equally selfish to be honest

So you want your sister to spend Christmas on her own with her kids and maybe see some friends over the Christmas period? This is a seriously unpleasant attitude to have. Either invite your sister to yours (offer to pay for a nearby hotel if necessary) or leave her and your parents to it. Maybe have a read of ‘A Christmas Carol’ while you’re at it.

Good god, stop meddling! It's up to your parents how to manage their relationship with your sister. You focus on managing your own relationship with her.

I can see that it's awful of her to stay at home, and awful of her to visit your parents. She really does sound terribly difficult, having the temerity to have a fussy 5 month old baby. She should have told that baby very firmly to be quiet, or maybe assigned the 2 yo as the babysitter, so she could focus on doing a food shop and cooking dinner for everyone. Everybody knows it's easy to cook and shop in an unfamiliar place with a fractious baby and a young toddler.

It's good to know that you are firmly on the side of your sister's ex. Perhaps you could find room for him instead.

I can't think why she's ever chosen to spend time alone. It couldn't be that she is just as uncomfortable being the clearly unwelcome guest as you are to be forced to interact with her, but goes through it for her children's sake.

It certainly sounds like there is no good reason she might have cut off contact with you in the past, not wanting contact with people who clearly hate you, exclude you from family occasions, and judge everything about you is just very trivial indeed and she really ought to just accept that she's a worthless family member to you all.