To be fed up of having to work Christmas because I don't have children

[boogiewoogie24]

I work in a 24/7 sector so christmas day is a normal working day.

This year we have a new manager and we've been told that apart from christmas day and boxing day, we have to work our normal shifts. Those 2 days, we have to work either christmas or boxing day

I work weds-sun one week and weds-fri the other, so never work Mon and Tues. I've been informed I'm working christmas eve, which is a Tuesday. Of the 3 people who normally work the Tuesday late shift, 2 have very young children so are being allowed to either finish early (normal finish time is 11pm) or just don't have to work. The other person has older kids so is happy to work as normal.
So I've been told I'm working the Tuesday until 11pm. I questioned why when I don't work Tuesdays. Response was "you don't have kids" yeah that'll be because I've had 3 miscarriages over 10 years of trying for a baby.
I'm one of only 3 people who work at my place who don't have children. The other 2 are only in their early 20s so plenty of time for them to have in future. I'm nearly 40.

I'm also having to work both christmas and boxing day because it's Jane's first christmas as a mum so she can have both days off and Jill's got her kids this year and last year they were at their dad's so she can have both days off, and Mary's family are in Scotland (we are south england) so she can have the 2 days off to visit them. No doubt Sue and Karen will go off sick like normal... you get the picture.

I'm rambling I know. But basically I'm being penalised for being unable to have children. It doesn't matter that I find christmas incredibly hard and painful.

If you have enough staff, you can take turns having high days and holidays off (unless for unexpected emergencies) with no worry about ensuring you follow legal obligations to allow parents time off for essential childcare cover.

Do we really want to lose brilliant doctors, nurses, midwives etc. because they can't cover all shifts when they have young children? This isn't a 'parents should get these days off' so much as a small subset of parents will have no choice but to take these days off because no other childcare is available.

I think you seem to have entirely missed that nuance.

So would you do the decent thing and allow people who have had a miscarriage to have Christmas off?

What about people like me, who are dreading Christmas because the IVF might not work (again)?

honestly use some imagination, there are lots of reasons people may want time off and not all of them will be actually made clear to you in the workplace. Stop assuming you know “what’s decent”

I don't believe that "no other childcare is available." Not in 99.999 percent of cases. I believe it's a matter of parents not wanting to find childcare, because it doesn't benefit them to do so. It's a card they can play to advantage themselves and disadvantage co-workers.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Oh you are so full of it. Lots of schedules are not confirmed until relatively late in the day (November time often). Single parents without local support networks.arw not going to be able to find Christmas day childcare.

We have laws that reflect that reality, thankfully.

Now, many people can sort cover with a spouse/ close family, and indeed do. If you have enough cover, the majority who can take turns do take turns.

If there are situations where you cannot be fair to all staff, and support the very few who have need to be excepted from these schedules due to caring responsibilities, then you have much bigger problems.

The fact you do not comprehend this indicates you are either a troll, willful contrarian, or lacking in empathy.

It's not only parents who have difficulty organising care over Christmas (and New Year).

At one point, I was working plus caring for both my mother and my husband. Mum had carers coming in several times a day. My husband didn't.

Every year, I'd get the care company pressurising me to cut all my mum's care visits over the holidays. Understandably, their carers didn't want to work on those days. I'd try to have at least a couple of short visits because it was easier for two of us to do the necessary moving and handling and I had to deal with any care that my husband required.

My job meant that I wasn't expected to work over Christmas and New Year, but there will be people with caring duties who have even more challenges than those of most parents.

At my work, you're not allowed to take leave over Christmas and New year.
There used to be a choice of whether you wanted Christmas or new year off.
Most people wanted Christmas off and it wasn't viable, so it was stopped and the manager decides, irrespective of what your circumstances are.
If you worked last Christmas then you won't be working this Christmas but you will be working new year.
It caused a bit of upset, but those protesting simply get referred to their contract that they signed.

While I agree the other side is why should those without children or two parent families be penalised for that person’s situation.

This makes sense. Fair to all.

Exactly. There needs to be some allowance for those who cannot cover out of work responsibilities. This will not be everyone, but it will be some people.

Are they penalised? The other option is those people cannot work those types of jobs. You then have a smaller pool of people you can employ the rest of the year?

Oh you are so full of it. Lots of schedules are not confirmed until relatively late in the day (November time often). Single parents without local support networks.arwnot going to be able to find Christmas day childcare.
We have laws that reflect that reality, thankfully

Would you kindly link the law that allows single parents to be except from working a Christmas rota if they have no childcare which entitles them to time off specifically over the Christmas period?

Because women tend to have more childcare responsibilities than men, a policy or practice that disadvantages women because of their childcare responsibilities can amount to indirect sex discrimination. This was confirmed by the Employment Appeal Tribunal in a case called Dobson v North Cumbria^.
This argument can apply to employers who refuse a flexible working request, or a mother’s request to work part time, or the insistence on working patterns that are difficult to make work around childcare responsibilities. In Dobson, the employer had a policy requiring employees, including Mrs Dobson, to work flexibly, including weekends, as and when required by the employer. The Employment Appeal Tribunal confirmed that women are more likely to find it difficult to work certain hours (for example, nights and weekends) or changeable hours (where the changes are dictated by the employer) than men because of childcare responsibilities. As a result Employment Tribunals must accept as fact that women still bear the primary burden of childcare responsibilities and this hinders their ability to work certain hours^

its not specifically around Christmas but employers can not legally force women to work unsociable hours because of childcare issues. I don’t see how this is looked on as bad?

The law does say you can't discriminate on family status, i.e. a parent. So yes this is unlawful and the op could easily have a legitimate complaint.

@SleepFinally and what about those who have loved ones who they might not have much longer left with or the ones whose family members who live that far it requires a sleepover. Who trumps who?

Could you live with yourself if you had deprived a person of their last Christmas with a loved one or deprived someone of visiting their only family and are now sat alone over the festive period?

I too prefer to live in a world where we do what is right and be decent to others. Everyone has different circumstances and people need to understand that, which is why in my opinion in these circumstances it should be done fairly Giving the days to parents of young children over other people's circumstances is morally wrong and I say this as a mother of 2 young children who of course I want to spend my time with at Christmas but why do my needs trump someone else's?

And? The op isn't impacted by that nor is the others in her example as their children have another parent.

Given her miscarriages so you not think your post is very ignorant? The op issue isn't to solve others issues it is for her to be treated fairly.

i was responding to a different poster

And? Did it not occur to you that your response in the control the actual thread was absolutely tone deaf?

Never mind, misread.

I don't think it would be past a good employment lawyer to show how the OP is being treated differently because of her sex/marital status/ disability, if you really wanted to push a case. Several miscarriages and subsequent infertility might well be seen as a disability and a protected characteristic.

Extremely unlikely - Disability is quite well defined in respect of employment law.

However, had the miscarriages/infertility led to severe depression, that could come under disability. It would need to have had a significant impact on OPs ability to live/work normally, and for that to have lasted over 12 months.

OP hasn't mentioned this though so impossible to know.

Also, her employer would have needed to be aware. You cannot discriminate against a disability you're not aware of.

That is still unsatisfactory and unfair. It is treating one employee differently because of her medical circumstances.

Again, unfair does not mean illegal. And we have no information to support that OP was aware of the 'medical circumstances' around her not having children.

the thread has gone off on a few tangents, I was responding to one of them. That’s how this site works. No need to get offended.

The op made a specific reference to her loses. You post is unbelievably crass and insensitive. But your responses clearly show your lack of emotional intelligence!

I have carers that help.me and the arrangement is the ones without kids get new years off and the one with little kids get Xmas off , which i think is fair. Besides you say you find Xmas hard so better to work it and forget how hard it js which might be difficult sympathise for tgw miscarriages by tge way and then maybe have an adult party at new year

It's how the care sector seems to do it in the agency I use. The no kids get new year off do cab spend time with family then the kids get Xmas off

Childfree people enjoy Christmas with family as much or more than those with children. And many don't care to celebrate or party on NYE.

Treating people differently based on reproductive status is wrong.

Asserting that anyone is better off working to keep their mind off their troubles is beyond obnoxious.

I highly doubt that!

I have children but I think it's totally unfair. I haven't been interested in NYE since I was in my twenties. Anyone above that is likely to prefer xmas off, kids or not.