How to tell her her full name

[Themiddlemum]

I was in a relationship with my daughters "father" when I was very young and he was 20 years older, he was very abusive. Including sexually assaulting me during pregnancy and directly after. I left him when my daughter was 7 weeks old. The surname on her bc is 2 separate names. So think- Smith Jones.

He had approx 7 contacts with her in a contact centre and then chucked the towel in, 13 years ago. We haven't heard from him since.

I've always just used the first part of her surname- "smith" e.g school, drs etc. With no problems.This year we applied for a bank account for her and I had to send in her birth certificate, the bank account was confirmed and they sent the debit card, I was bracing myself for having to tell her her full surname, when the card arrived they had just used "smith" (nothing to do with me, thats just how it arrived) then her N.I letter arrived, again with just the Smith part of her surname.

We are planning on going to Disney in the new year so ive applied for her passport, its arriving this week. Obviously I'm not going to get lucky with the surname again and need to tell her. Its filled me with anxiety and worry for years, I've no idea how to say it to her. Please help, any suggestions? Thanks

Spoke like someone with zero understanding of abuse.

Yes very similar. She has a longer girl name and a shorter boy name, so think Georgina to George and she never knew that. But no, I think I just put her 1 surname and no one has ever had a problem with it, but i also did that when I was with him as she has a long fist name and then 2 middle names and 2 surnames and I couldn't be bothered writing it all out. I've got a feeling its because there is no hyphen between the 2 surnames that the bank and the dwp have just used the 1 surname.

Themiddle, I'm actually 19. (I know it seems odd to be on mumsnet, we unfortunately have recently had trouble w some other unpleasant family members & I come here for advice). Ofc I can't predict the future, but I think I am a fairly well balanced person- I haven't had a relationship yet but bc of all this I am quite alert to signs. I actually want to be a lawyer to help people in this situations, my mother had an unspeakable time bc she couldn't affors a proper lawyer. People shouldn't talk like people in this situations are destined for abusive relationships, everyone needs to be alert.

Oh god love you. My aunty died when my cousins were 2.5 and 4 and my uncle remarried and that made it v v difficult for them to ask questions about their mum. So I really feel for you, not feeling like you know her.

Thank you, its v true that its good he gave her to me. I've often thought if I had my life over I could have a better life if I'd never met him, then I remember I'd have to meet him and go through it all again to get her.

Thank you, we are v excited.

I understand where you're coming from. But..

1. I think you should start preparing yourself. If you are not in counselling, it's something to think about.

1. YOU should approach the topic of her 'dad'. It can start off small, you can say "it's a hard subject so it might have to be small talks over a long period"

Ask if she has questions, if she wants to write them down- maybe you can do it together, so you get time to go through them.

1. And most importantly, she doesn't need to know everything you're her mum, you protecting her from the exact truth is completely ok, if not encouraged.

I think the reason she hasn't asked about her dad, isn't because she doesn't want to know about him. It's because she sees it'll hurt you. So she won't ask you but that won't help her or you heal, if you are always scared about when you will finally talk about him.

You can change her name by deed poll - you won’t need his permission if you can prove you don’t know of his whereabouts and he hasn’t been in her life. There’s loads of help and advice on their website

Thank goodness you got out of there OP. You were v brave to protect your DD, I know how hard it can be to leave. She will appreciate knowing you did that. It was difficult when mine told me bc she had initially stayed through some pretty disturbing stuff involving me...but she explained that it was done in a sneaky way so she couldn't believe it was on purpose, esp when she had all the maternal hormones & couldn't see how a father could want to hurt his child. She did see the light pretty soon & I'm not angry now, I understand. Mostly I'm sad she got hurt, as I can't remember it. It's a lot of emotions to process, & family counselling may be an idea possibly.

Calliope, it's a bit much saying OP has made her DD feel the subject is banned. Her DD clearly has felt able to mention him.

Very good advice, Grace.
You and your Mum lived through it, probably most on here have not {I lost my mum to illness as a toddler, but that is a completely different thing, as there was zero violence.

It is a puzzle, we have this unknown person who makes up 50% of our DNA, I had to find out in secret where mum was buried, as I didn't want to upset Dad {or new mum} -ironically a very early memory is of Dad scrubbing clean a white stone Crucifix- there was green in the soapsuds- and Mum's grave marker is indeed a crucifix- an old one, as she was buried her family member who died decades before- so that memory was accurate!

It must be difficult if a parent is abusive like your father was, and @Themiddlemum 's husband was.

It's probably easier that there aren't any relatives of her ex husband to come out of the woodwork as in Middlemum's case.

Good advice. Op's DD may have ascertained that he was abusive in some way. Some people genuinely don't want to know more, but there may be a protective thing going on. Small talks over some time are a good idea.

Oh bless your heart. I think I know what you're saying about what he was doing. Its mind blowing to know some parents will go to the ends of the earth to protect their children, but other parents are the ones causing harm. Your mum sounds really strong.

The subject is most definitely not banned. I've done certain training and I'm aware children need to know where they came from as its a part of their identity. Its very difficult to navigate what information to give and at what stage. Even more so when you get a blank face staring back at you as if they are totally disinterested. As previously mentioned my best friend doesn't know anything about her dad, because her mum won't tell her, even though my friend doesn't care, I still think thats really awful to deny your child information about their own existence.

@oakleaffy are you me? I had an almost identical childhood. The difference is that while my Dad made it clear that it was too upsetting to talk about mum, I was desperate to know more about her. I imagined all sorts about her, put her on a pedestal and was fixated with how similar or different I might be from her.

To be honest, it screwed me up almost as much as her dying when I was so young.

Who knows what's best for OP's DD.

I feel very sad for her that she may be feeling she can't bring up the subject for fear of upsetting mum. Or might be secretly feeling terrified that she will grow up to be as bad as everyone on her father's side.

OP, is there any way you can think of a tiny positive about him? He always had amazing thick hair. He had brilliant sense of humour. He sang like Elvis. He was a great driver. Anything that helps DD to not feel she's 50% bad.

Birth certificate perhaps?

Thanks, Middlemum!
It's true, there is one big positive from him- your lovely Daughter!

Your Aunty dying while your cousins were so little - Yes, I can absolutely see how your cousins find it hard to ask questions.

What I really really regret is that my half brothers {from new 'mum'} said that Dad found some old recordings with Birthmum and me on, with some other people and he destroyed them after listening to them.

When my brothers told me, I was so frustrated. I'd have loved to have heard her voice. Dad didn't want to ''upset'' me by telling me of them- but he could have at least asked! - but second Mum at least rescued some old photographs and gave them to me in a box and an album found up in the attics of their old house- I'm very grateful for those.

Not without lying, no. Hes the most diabolical person I've known. But she's nothing like him really, she's an incredibly fair person and is very morally guided, very funny and bouncy. I can't see any similarities. She looks just like me and my dad and brother. So I'm hoping she doesn't draw any similarities for her own sake.

He could play the violin and the piano, I suppose that's a positive.

I'm really sorry Oakleaffy, that must have been v hard feeling you couldn't ask.
There was a lot of upset from his continued behaviour afterwards via the court. It was awful hearing about what happened when I was v young. But bc I knew he wasn't a good person from a young age I never wanted to see him, and the option was there if I changed my mind. It must be much harder to have lost someone good.
In Op's case, I think bc there is a chance her DD wants to ask more but is unsure if it will upset her mother, she should bring it up. But if her DD doesn't want to know, and it sounds like she may not, that should be respected. Some people are fine without any more information, esp if the person was abusive.

Thats really sad. I wish your brother hadn't told you.

Their dad told them they had a new mummy when he was getting remarried and it broke my grans heart.

You can check in with her about how she feels about not having a father without making it about him. Things you don’t talk about can become shameful when they don’t need to be.

Ahhh why do people keep secrets from kids? Especially something as easy to confirm as her having her dad’s surname.

I had secrets kept from me as a kid, all because my dad thought “he knew best” and it suited him not to be honest. It’s always a mistake, it’s always much harder to learn the truth years later after you’ve lived your life believing one thing only to find out it’s not true.

If you grow up already knowing then it’s a non-issue. It’s just “the norm”. Fortunately this doesn’t seem a big deal and she can change it. Just tell her.

Over simplifying the situation isn't helpful. Its not appropriate to use her full name as she's a child. I'm not going to open the doors to why that is to a child. Now she's older, I'm prepared to tell her.

@DancingTurtle Good points? He raped a young woman when she was pregnant/not long given birth. I can't think of anything that could cancel that out if I'm honest. Rapists are scum of the earth, and that's insulting to scum. That these scummy individuals sometimes beget children who are as far removed from them as the sun is from pluto has nothing to do with them and their actions or their DNA.

Ohh yes- It's very hard to lose a mother so young. {Attachment disorder anyone?! 😬}
A psychiatrist said it's the worst age to lose a Mother, as the child cannot understand or process the loss, or grieve properly as they could if they were older. Sorry that you too had to endure this loss.

The utter nonsense spouted about ''Children are resilient, they will forget their mothers''...no , they don't. They remember the upset on a profound level.

So many adopted children -adopted early- have terrible Attachment disorders.

It undoubtedly really affects a child.

As for losing a father young, or not having them present in a child's life, it does have an effect, but probably lesser than losing a mother.

Yep and he did that to try to get me to lose the pregnancy. How do you have a conversation with someone knowing that's what they wanted to happen to them? Its very difficult to cherry pick information that would pacify someone but then I'd be told I was sugar coating it.

My friend was in a similar situation and found out when getting a passport as a teenager that her birth certificate surname was different to the nme she had always used. Her mum explained that the name she was known by was her ‘real’ name but the birth certificate was wrong as it was out of date. She had to wait to 18 to change it by deed poll. That’s what she did.

What an horrendous thing to have to endure.

My friend had to listen to her father raping her mother repeatedly, throughout her childhood and her parents are still together.

{He has probably got older and less sexually abusive now}

It has without doubt affected her as an adult, { her sibling was adversely affected , too}

At least you had the courage to leave, with your Dad's help. ⭐

Just as well you did, or you could still be undergoing abuse, now.

Once your DD is 16 you don't need his permission to change her name. My DDs father has not been a big part of her life, he's not a nice person and she's worked that out for herself over the years. I remarried and when she was 16 she legally changed her name by deed poll to my husbands surname, she didn't need permission from myself or her father to do so