How to tell her her full name

[Themiddlemum]

I was in a relationship with my daughters "father" when I was very young and he was 20 years older, he was very abusive. Including sexually assaulting me during pregnancy and directly after. I left him when my daughter was 7 weeks old. The surname on her bc is 2 separate names. So think- Smith Jones.

He had approx 7 contacts with her in a contact centre and then chucked the towel in, 13 years ago. We haven't heard from him since.

I've always just used the first part of her surname- "smith" e.g school, drs etc. With no problems.This year we applied for a bank account for her and I had to send in her birth certificate, the bank account was confirmed and they sent the debit card, I was bracing myself for having to tell her her full surname, when the card arrived they had just used "smith" (nothing to do with me, thats just how it arrived) then her N.I letter arrived, again with just the Smith part of her surname.

We are planning on going to Disney in the new year so ive applied for her passport, its arriving this week. Obviously I'm not going to get lucky with the surname again and need to tell her. Its filled me with anxiety and worry for years, I've no idea how to say it to her. Please help, any suggestions? Thanks

i know someone who when they applied for a passport they wrote a note saying I’ve never used this name bla bla, included proof of using said name at doctors etc and they put her chosen name on her passport.

It's not gaslighting

I didn't have contact with my father from the age of 2 until I asked to meet him at 21. I had moved to the same town as him and I didn't want to just bump into him without knowing and also wanted to just know who he was, on my terms. It didn't go well at all, but that is another story.

The point I want to make is that whatever I heard from my family didn't make me stop wondering about him: did I look like him, speak like him? I carried the information that he was a bad person with me for as long as I can remember and it made me feel like I was bad by association as a child, definitely not wanting to rock the boat by asking questions about him.

Lack of family transparency and feeling like the subject was taboo was definitely detrimental to my self esteem. I'm sure I made awful relationship decisions as a result as a young adult.

Being the abused ex-partner of this man and the rightly protective mother of the daughter in question is very different to being the daughter in question who may well grow to have questions and also want to know about medical issues in the family etc. it's a tough situation.

Themiddle, I totally get that. It was v hard for my mum to talk positively about someone who had posed a threat to our lives! 😡As I said, for your DD it may be necessary to hear more, but only if she wants to. She may be fine without. Frankly, I don't really give a shit if mine is from Wales or Ireland after the way he & his relatives acted. Some people are different, that's fine, but it's v patronising & insensitive for people to talk down to abuse survivors like this & prophecy definitely dire consequences of not talking about abusive fathers.
I had to know about his terrible behaviour after he brought a case when I was 11. My mum explained why it hadn't been safe to see him. She told me, bc she felt I had to know to make my decision. It was grim, but somehow it all felt unreal considering these were things that happened over a decade ago, & it hasn't caused me trauma to know. Your DD doesn't need to know for that reason. I wouldn't mention it unless brought up. I wasn't damaged by knowing, but I'd have preferred not to, otherwise.

have you had any counselling? I know it's hard to find a good one. My mum also had terrible experiences w my father, she seems alright now bit sometimes I think it might have helped to do so. She thinks it wouldn't, I know it depends.

home haircut, that's really awful. I get people do often need to know more. My mum was always v loving to make up for the stress he put us under, & I never felt his behaviour reflected on mine. But the difference was I felt I could say anything to my mother, she was incredible despite everything. Plus she has given information about his medical history. It is important Op's DD feels she can ask about him.

Your poor mum, mums often shoulder the burden of protecting their kids. I did have counselling on and off and I volunteered for a few years at a women's shelter and its really eye opening how many have suffered.
Its difficult when people are telling you he and his family have good points and they really don't. Its my job as her parent to safeguard her from dangerous people and dangerous situations. I can clearly see some people feel she will definitely want to know xyz, but knowing what I do I really can't see her wanting to take anything further after that and its really not safe to do so anyway. I haven't hidden anything from her, its not a dirty secret to me, yes its distressing, however most of the things I'd need to tell her really aren't suitable for a small child.

I think she can ask me anything, I've been prepared on and off to answer questions at the ready, but none have come. I only know a couple of things about his medical history and there's no one else to ask.

I agree with this, OP.

Well the Op needs to find some. Not for her sake but for her daughter’s sake. Otherise how does this sound “ the person who is half your genetic heritage is a thoroughly evil man with no good qualities whatsoever , as are all his family going back generations “?

That’s not going to help the girl make sense of her background is it ? And it really can’t be true - they can’t all be 100% evil.

All that’s doing is signalling to the girl that the subject of her father and his family is forbidden . So that when ( not if ) they contact her on social media and want to exchange info / photos / meet up , the girl is guaranteed to keep it secret.

And of course she will be curious because of the vacuum that exists now. It’s only natural that she will have questions about half of her family.

The father managed to charm the Op into having a relationship with him for at least a year, so I’m sure that he / his family will have no trouble in doing the same to his daughter.

He will no doubt have a very different version of the story than the one the Op has given and of course the Dd will have no one to fact check it with - because she will keep the whole thing secret from her mother “ to protect her “. Just as her mother has done from her .

Or there could be contact from another family member - a cousin or half sibling nearly her own age or perhaps a lovely granny or auntie - someone who seems delightful she would love to meet. But all potentially a risk to her .

Even if the DD has no social media ( pretty unlikely nowadays ) they can trace her through a freinds SM or through the school. It’s pretty easy as he knows her full name, the mother’s name and the area where she lived until she was 2, perhaps her extended family’s names etc .

The best thing you can do now @Themiddlemum is get some family counselling with your Dd and find some support and a safe space to tell her the truth in an age appropriate way. Because your Dd is at risk right now - the scenario I outline here is not far fetched at all - it happens all the time to adoptees. Often at far younger than 16.

Thats one of several reasons why the expert advice is that your daughter should have had all this information about her past ( in an age appropriate way) before puberty .

I’m assuming your DD is registered at the doctors and at school with just the one surname. If so that is what she has been known and you just need to fill out the section on the passport application to say this. If it helps it happened to me too. My dad’s name is on my birth certificate but was dropped in childhood (never officially by deedpoll). My NHS number, NI number, exam certificates, drivers licence and passport are all without it

That's good you had counselling. I know how dangerous & awful these things can get- My mum luckily got out before anything really bad happened- it was more like trying to put me in danger w plausible deniability, & rapidly escalated. It sounds awful writing it down, it's always seemed a bit unreal to me bc I can't remember it luckily, & from the court documents he's a pathetic character in therapy writing a neverending novel, so both of us find it hard to believe it all happened.
I get it being hard to say anything good about someone so awful- my father was probably abused by his parents, they are a disturbed lot all around. It sounds like you have a close bond, that's the key thing : that she can go to you to ask. Ofc she might not do that so as not to upset you, she has to know she can do that. It sounds like she can.
I get that contact wasn't safe when she was a child- if she feels she can ask, it's up to her to take it further if she wants. And, despite what pps have said, some people don't want to meet birth parents, esp abusive ones, ways of holding glasses notwithstanding.

You should have had this convo with her before applying for the bank account and passport though.

Just tell her, before she sees the passport. She deserves to hear it from you.

Yes you will have to bring it up. And I would honestly say it is the time to encourage her to ask questions, any questions she has bottled up or worried about, and answer honestly, but with age-appropriate detail. You don't need to tell her details of what he did to you. You can just tell her he was abusive or that he hurt you - that is detail enough. "Physical and sexual abuse" if she is very persistent at wanting to know - personally, I wouldn't go any further than this. My mum did overshare some details of things that my dad did when we were teenagers, and I understand now that it's because she was traumatised but still - it was so much to process and I really struggled with it but felt as though I had to take it all in my stride and be grown up and unshockable. If she really wants to know, then you can always tell her when she is an adult. But it's also your private history/memory/trauma - you don't have to tell her details ever, if you don't want to.

The other thing I would caution is that at 13 if she has his full name she might go looking for him on the internet, and you might wish to avoid giving his first name for this reason. (Again, promise to disclose when she is an adult if she wants to know. But I would be cautious of giving it now given the impulsivity of teenagers, and even if she doesn't google him, one of her friends might.)

The hyperbole isn't helpful to the OP. The girl's father probably doesn't know anything about his family going back generations but you know what they say about the apple.

A false narrative doesn't to be created. Just an open discussion that allows DD to ask questions about her background and father. When DD comes of age, it's up to her what she does with that information.

Lol you've made so many presumptions its laughable.

I need to find some, so basically make them up?

So you don't think there's anyone out there who is truly a bad person and evil?

He won't be contacting her on social media. His parents are dead and he's an only child. I'm not aware of any cousins, so I doubt they'll be aware of her and know her name to charm her.

He doesn't have another version of events and there is proof of what happened for her to fact check.

I haven't kept things a secret from her, I've literally listed the things I have told her and she hasn't been interested in taking further.

He can't trace her through her school and he's not allowed to have our address and isn't allowed to contact her until she's 18. Which I highly doubt he will do.

Thanks for your "advice" but considering you've given it based on a lot of wrong assumptions, I think I'll say thanks but no thanks.

Haven't read TFT so might be overlapping. I was in a very similar situation to you, although my daughter is a bit younger. She had her birth fatherd surname but i just use mine for school etc, she never questioned it. Recently she found a photo I had when she was just born, it was me her and him

I took that opportunity so talk to her, was so nervous wondering would she be upset. I asked who she thought it was, she just said 'my dad from when I was born' but it was honestly one of the most uneventful conversations of my life, i asked did she have any questions, she didnt. Asked how she felt and she said she couldn't care less lol she is old enough to know I didn't have her on my own but hasn't missed out, and to be honest has had it easier without him hanging around.

So don't worry, chances are it's a much bigger deal for you than her.

Calliope, while this was not true for me, I agree this would be better to maybe say more earlier. Op has been through horrible trauma though, no one is 100% perfect during that. Your post could have been more sensitive to the Op's trauma.

As to the here & now, that is a v important point. I would not have wanted to speak to mine given his extreme behaviour, but Op's dd is in a v different situation w much less information. That point is key. She must know, to keep herself safe from this family if they try to reach out. Mine didn't as he was using the family court, but others will try other ways sometimes.

I don’t know why people are giving you useless posts about the passport. The old ones you signed in advance and your signature digitally reproduced. The new ones you physically sign when they’re delivered.

I’m sure she’ll be fine. It’s just an extra name she can drop if she wants to.

Op you really need to tell her more about her dad instead of waiting for her, a child, to ask you, the adult, about things she should have known years ago.
If he is really as bad as you are making him out to be, why wouldn't you prepared her for that? Especially since it's so easy to find people through social media, dna sites and even basic Google searches? It literally makes no sense to not tell her why he isn't in her life when she could find him and her entire paternal family in a single weekend.

I don’t understand - surely her legal name would be on all her nhs and education things already? I named my daughter after my grandfather (female name version) but right from birth I used a shortened version as her everyday name (think Susan / Sue) - I forgot to tell me daughter her legal name was the longer version and she came home from first day school aged 4 saying ‘mum the teacher said my name is Susan not Sue’ and all her school documents and nhs documents have her legal name on them

Thank you. Its really good hearing this from an adult. It's surreal for me too, I was a very shy and nervous person all those years ago, so feels like it's a different person. I stayed with him through the abuse when it was just me, but I can very vividly remember thinking there's no way I'm staying with him when he started on her. Only took me a few weeks to build up the courage. My dad had left me a secret pay as you go mobile, when he visited us when she was born the 7 weeks before. I waited for him to fall asleep, got the phone out and text my dad to come get me, he lived 200 miles away and it was 1am, bless his heart he said shall I come get you now? I said leave it till 7am. I woke her up and put her in her car seat and filled her Moses basket with clothes and nappies and never went back. Left with just the clothes I was wearing.

Oh Middlemum, this is so sad.
Your poor daughter and you.

I lost my birth mum at 2.5 yrs old,{Illness} and don't really remember her much {sadly} and thought my childhood she was never mentioned.
{ Dad didn't want to upset me}

As your Daughter gets older, she may well want to ask questions- I certainly did.
Dad clearly loved my mum {he remarried and I call his wife ''Mum'' now} -but Dad obviously found it really hard to talk of her.

I don't think you need to bring up her 'father' unless she asks.

He desperately let you and her down.

HOWEVER- The good part about him- the only good part- is that he gave you your lovely little girl.

She sounds a sweet, sensitive child.

In future, as an adult, she may want to try and make contact with him, just out of curiosity.
{This no way will reflect on you}.

You certainly don't need to bring him up unless she specifically asks.

Have a wonderful time in Disneyland. ✈️

tilly town, OP said there were no other family. I personally wouldn't ve wanted to know more if there hadn't been the case when I was 11, but looking back it was clearer to me from a young age what he was like, as when I was quite young he stalked my mum. But I see if you just hear, ' He's bad.' Or similar it may raise more qs.
Op did say he's forbidden to contact her. I think she should know a bit more though as he could try stuff after she's 18.
Why do you say' making him out to be'? You don't need to make a pos who sexually assaults a pregnant woman bad, he does a good enough job of that himself! Did you read Op's 1st post?
Boogie, thank you. It is just as damaging to say everyone wants to know as to say nobody wants to know.

There's no such thing as a fixed legal name in English law. You can change it by deed poll but even this is not legally required. Your name is what you go by. This is explained here:

https://www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-poll

There are extra rules for children under 16 - all the information is there.

She old enough to know and understand why the name will be there. You're overthinking it.