to have not lost my rag at ward sister

[TheTidyBear]

Spent 18 hours in A&E with elderly Dad in a corridor after he had a fall, they forgot to give him food, so I had to get some from the canteen, messed up his bloods twice, couldn't get pills into him so I had to help with that that. Also someone coughing up their lungs right next to me and Dad for several hours. There was also an incident where one of the patients in the mental health unit who was having an episode decided to start shouting at everyone in A&E.

Once he got onto a ward, I did a 2 hour journey home got 2 hours sleep, 2 hour journey back

Went to the nurses station on the ward, asked where my Dad is. Ward sister greeted me "what happened to hello, didn't your parents teach you any manners?"

Was I unreasonable to suppress the absolute rage boiling up in me and apologise and not fly off the fucking handle?

This makes no sense as well as being callous.

I’d say she’s not the one in the wrong.

OP - I’m really sorry about your dad and the cruel and goading comments you’re getting here.

As she’s already said that she felt if she had slept in her dad would likely be dead, I think it’s you that needs to have a think about the way you speak to people.

Where did she take anything out on anyone ?

@TheTidyBear I hear you. When ad was in hospital we came across some awful attitudes from the staff. Including one who was really annoyed when I phoned to check a message mum had got confused about. It was in dad's notes that mum has alzheimer's and that all contacts should be to my brother ir to me if they couldn't get hold of him, and he'd been on 3 weeks with this working well. She phoned mum with the details of his discharge to a care home and of course mum got totally confused and ended up very distressed. Nurses very stroppy reaction was she couldn't see the problem as it was a quite straightforward message. This was from a nurse on an eldercare ward!
Another one was when DS2 was small he became very ill with raging fever very suddenly in the evening. There was a problem with the GP phone system and I couldn't get through. This was before 111 type systems so I called the hospital fir advice and they said possible meningitis, bring him straight in. Luckily it was a chest infection and they were happy for him to go home with antibiotics and advice. As I was leaving a nurse shouted right across the waiting area that next time I should contact my GP first. So I stood there and responded that maybe she should check her facts before publicly berating people because I had tried to do so and had then acted on hospital advice.
Not to mention the ward clerk who, when DS1 had emergency surgery, insisted she didn't have my contact number when I could see my home, work and mobile numbers in the file in front of her and carried on arranging me for not supplying contact details even after I pointed them out to her.
I could give many more examples. There seems to be something in the air in hospitals that goes to some people's heads.
Not to say there aren't some really lovely people who you just want to hug as they say/do something that receives a really stressful time like the lovely ward clerk who was the usual contact when dad was in hospital and really got how stressful it was not being able to visit (2020) and with mum's alzheimer's meaning she couldn't understand/remember what was going on.

What an absolute rude bloody cow. I would never have spoken to anyone like that in a minimum wage zero hours shop job. I know nurses are under immense strain and are essentiality being abused by the system and they have my sympathy, and I can forgive snappiness or brusqueness, but a dressing-down like that, no. Totally not on.

@Justalittlenaughty I wish manors were free.

Doesn’t matter if she knew the back story or not. Doesn’t matter if she’d previously met OP or not. OP is a close relative worried about her dad. The nurse should have recognised her demeanour as such and understood it. OP wasn’t rude, she was politely asking where her dad was and was met with an abusive reply which actually cast aspersions on his parenting skills. In what world is that acceptable ?

to those saying ‘maybe she was having a bad day too’ - is meeting perceived rudeness with utter rudeness the way to go? Race to the bottom? I’d say bringing someone’s parents’ parenting ability into question when employed in a place where there’s a fair old chance the parent in question is seriously ill or dying departs rudeness and is an indication they probably shouldn’t be there until they can remember they’re a professional at work. I too deal with people at their worst every day and when I feel they’ve been abrupt/unpleasant I certainly don’t up the ante.

Hope your dad improves OP.

So you think that it is a relatives responsibility to feed a patient while they are in A&E? What if they don’t have anyone to go get some food for them? What if there is nowhere in the hospital they can get food? It is no wonder patients leave hospital malnourished.

I was a nurse, before I had to take medical retirement. I also had a dh, who was very ill and was in hospital frequently. The treatment he received from some staff (thankfully, by far the minority) was also disgusting. Some nurses really don’t give a shit about their patients, especially the ones who don’t have someone to advocate for them.

I remember once in my DH’s situation, the canteen was shut and there was only a vending machine with crisps etc. Every unit (including A&E) had been supplied with sandwiches in case patients were hungry. Why wasn’t my dh offered a sandwich? Because the staff had eaten them theirselves!

Ah yes I was being a bit cheeky to @Justalittlenaughty as she got the term wrong, the P in TPN stands for parenteral (meaning beyond the intestine) not parental. Makes me suspect she isn’t a HCP at all. I hope she isn’t!

Sorry you were so unwell 💐

Agree there are plenty of studies now about the effects of what is termed " incivility" in the NHS and why is so dangerous to patient outcomes
Other studies show why nursing as a profession is so toxic.
Obviously not all nurses are women but the majority are and rather than tackle issues head on and up the dissatisfaction is taken out on the vulnerable and sideways to their colleagues.
Bullying is rife
Not all nurses are bullies but the ones who are get away with it time and time again

So sorry you had to deal with this at a stressful time @TheTidyBear
Worrying that's the example she sets to her juniors
Watch like a hawk and don't be frightened to go directly to PALS and the Matron if you get one whiff that they are taking out their stress on your Dad.
There is NOTHING to justify how she spoke to you.
Nurses are trained to understand that hospital admission is stressful and part of their code of conduct is to behave appropriately.
Hope your Dad is OK

Ps yes I understand the stress, I'm a nurse !

YANBU at all. Been there with horrible nurses myself. Sorry that happened to you ❤️

YANBU. You did well to remain calm in the face of such a snide remark. I expect she was very stressed. But imagine being spoken to like that in a shop or cafe!

I love the NHS and would do anything to defend it against the shameful under-resourcing, creeping privatisation, piss-poor bureaucratic management and constant political interference it’s been subjected to for decades. It’s full of hugely dedicated, valiant staff who work many unpaid hours under endless stress, risking their own health. They’re its biggest asset.

But, in my experience…

It has a shocking culture, which I think dates back to its founding in the 1950s. Where consultants are treated like gods, never to be questioned. Nurses have to comply without questioning, yet as medical staff are no longer required to ‘nurse’ (i.e. care for) patients. Cleaners aren’t even acknowledged and certainly not valued, despite the importance of hygiene in a hospital. It’s like a cross-section of the British class system on display.

And patients and their relatives are, quite frankly, often patronised, kept in the dark and made to feel like an inconvenience, irritant or even the enemy. Like other statutory services, the processes seem to come before the people. Anyone unable to advocate for themselves risks sinking like a stone. It’s so (rightly) terrified of litigation, patients can feel uninformed, uninvolved and disempowered.

These days, customer service is so good in so many places, the NHS can feel even more awful. You can be treated more kindly and efficiently in McDs. I’ve worked some hellish jobs. It costs nothing to have a smile and sense of service for the ‘customer’, empathy for their stress and (often) trauma and to aim for them to leave the interaction feeling better than when they entered it. Hospitals are supposed to make you feel better, after all.

I sincerely hope the current review of the NHS puts valuing the staff, patients and their carers at its heart. Because valued and happy staff, who are expected to serve the patient above all else, should result in a better, more healing atmosphere for everyone.

The OP didn't say anything to the coughing man or the shouting patient. She is just venting on an anonymous forum as she is exhausted and stressed and worried about her elderly dad.

OP wasn't rude to the staff and even if they thought she was, if they take it out on patients, they should be disciplined.

I'd guess from the way you are responding to others here, as well as your complete lack of empathy for others, that you are the problem here.

Excellent post. Many valid points. Your assessment of relatives sometimes being treated as an irritant resonated with me. Last year my mum, who is in her nineties with advanced dementia, was admitted after a fall. I have her LPA for both finance and health and welfare, and she has an advance directive regarding full time care being an absolute last resort - mum lives with me and my DH and we have private targeted care for her at home.

On a routine afternoon visit l arrived to find the hospital social worker ‘interviewing’ mum with no one else advocating for her and when l asked why l hadn’t been informed of the meeting as her LPA he replied that there was nothing in her records to indicate anyone could advocate for her, that she wasn’t fit to be discharged home with no support and that he was arranging for her to be placed into care.

I went to the nurses station and asked if they had a copy of the LPA l had provided on her admission. It was all there on their system - he hadn’t even bothered to look and had taken the word of a badly confused old lady that she had nowhere to go. I put him straight and told him about the advance directive and said that there was care in pace for mum whenever they decided she could be discharged.

I made a complaint and was made to feel as though l was making a fuss over nothing, despite the fact that mum was being interviewed illegally because she couldn’t advocate for herself - and was considerably distressed as a result. The charge nurse’s response to what in my view was a major failure to communicate on their part was ‘oh well, no harm done’. I dread to think how far things would have gone had l not arrived when l did, but it still didn’t stop them delaying mum’s discharge while they put a care package in place (for which they tried to charge her) despite it being a matter of record that we already had our own. It was their failure to actually act on what l was telling them which caused these issues and yet somehow they managed to make me feel as though we were to blame.

Yes, some NHS staff are bloody awful. A lot of them are wonderful, many are not.

Being busy is no excuse to be unpleasant.

I complain if it’s serious enough. That’s the only way things will improve. 🙄

Hope your mum is feeling better.

I wouldn't have 'lost my rag' either. I can't stand angry people. They are pathetic. I'd be annoyed and I might say something if I could be bothered but I'd probably not bother. What would be the point.

Really?

I'd guess from the way you are responding to others here, as well as your complete lack of empathy for others, that you are the problem here.

I'd suggest you look in the mirror.

Very similar happened to me. I had LPA for both my parents.

In Dad's case, I was scolded by a nurse for looking at his notes: "Do you have your father's permission?" I'd taken the LPA in and had a copy included in his notes. I only found out about the DNR they'd put on him by accident - the day I had to collect his death certificate, I was told to go to the office. His name was on a whiteboard with "NFR". I asked what it meant. No answer.

Then "Not For Resuscitation? Who made that decision? When? Why wasn't I informed?"

"I'll get a nurse."

Nurse: "I'll get a doctor."

Doctor: "Your father was in other wards before he came here..." (He was indeed. They kept moving him without informing me first. One time I got in and found an empty bed. No staff. A mute patient - a stroke victim - mimed Dad being taken to another ward.)

In Mum's case, 4 yrs later, I made a point of telling the nurse on admissions what had happened with Dad and that I didn't want to go through it again. I had stayed with Mum from early morning until 9 in the evening (waiting for full admission - Mum was in the admissions ward, but they were organising a bed in another ward) but had to go home to give husband his meds. Told the nurse I'd be back in the morning with the LPA.

Next morning, I went to the ward. The nurse on duty was shocked to see me, as I explained and handed her the LPA. " You need to see this..."

A DNR. Next of kin: " X hospital A&E".

At one point I got into the ward to visit her only to be told that they'd transferred her to another hospital. I'd been promised that they'd phone me. They didn't.

WearyAuldWummen you have my sympathy. And I suspect there are more incidents than you have written here. It takes me back to a very bad time with my own elderly mum in hospital. A complete catalogue of errors. And we were always made to feel in the wrong. Absolutely no accountability!

Ask her were her manners were.