Page 7 | Do think that La Leche League are now a danger to babies?

WandsOut · 2024-11-17T07:59:47+00:00

https://www.thetimes.com/article/dbc0da0f-9255-47d9-8819-f407afeb233c?shareToken=0104affbaef0be8bc38b6f33d859c0aa The bullying described here and the sheer idiocy of insisting by that biological males must be supported in breastfeeding is insane. AIBU to say they have lost the plot and need to be investigated? YABU - man milk is as good if not better than women's milk according to activists "On Monday night, the BBC chose to discuss the man-milk affair with a young woman called Kate Luxion, an unqualified ‘trainee lactation consultant’ and a researcher at UCL. With a composed and serious expression, Luxion insisted that not only was man milk safe, but ‘studies’ had actually found that a trans woman’s milk contained ^more^ nutrients than the milk of a baby’s mother. The presenter nodded happily along. Nod, nod, smile, smile. Yep, sounded right to her." https://archive.ph/2v26b

OneAmberFinch · 17/11/2024 17:34

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 17/11/2024 17:04

I completely agree!!

It's not the low supply that is the issue it's the motivation, the poor management of the low supply and the 'milk' not necessarily being safe. The motivation being the most objectionable thing to most people.

So I would really rather people leave the low supply out of it.

Show quote history

Yes to this and the quoted post! If men were producing gallons of the stuff I still would physically walk up and remove a baby I saw being "fed" like this and I honestly side-eye anyone who wouldn't! Either the motivation or the "milk" safety alone should be enough reason to have an instinctive revulsion from this practice.

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 17/11/2024 17:43

Helleofabore · 17/11/2024 17:19

“We will have to agree to disagree on this one because I believe that stating low supply is dangerous to babies and using it as a reason this practice should be discouraged is insulting to women who cannot produce a full supply.”

Let’s do agree to disagree.

Because I find this is a too reminiscent of the argument posters have tried to use to limit the discussion about male people with virilising DSDs to exclude the discussion about testosterone impacts on female sports because it is offensive to female people with PCOS who have slightly higher testosterone levels. And you probably won’t agree with that either and that is perfectly ok.

Edited

No one is limiting the discussion.

Just use the mismanagement of the low supply (Which we all agree is disgraceful) as the reason for your objection rather than the low supply itself because if you can still make the point without upsetting people I don't see why you wouldn't.

Helleofabore · 17/11/2024 18:00

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 17/11/2024 17:43

No one is limiting the discussion.

Just use the mismanagement of the low supply (Which we all agree is disgraceful) as the reason for your objection rather than the low supply itself because if you can still make the point without upsetting people I don't see why you wouldn't.

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And yet, saying that people should avoid the discussion about the theoretical limits of supply for a male person in regards to the ethics as to whether any medical professional be encouraging these male people to do this, is limiting discussion in my opinion. Either people should be able to discuss this issue in relation to male people, or they should not.

As you say, we shall agree to disagree.

Is there any poster amongst the other information posted on this thread that has made this a sole focus? However, it forms part of the full information that is available to us to evaluate to make our own decisions about this issue.

Helleofabore · 17/11/2024 18:41

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/11/2024 11:50

There was an analysis done on the "milk" that ONE man claimed to have produced (sample was brought in a bottle, his wife was breastfeeding the child also and the sample size was several times as much as he'd ever produced in an entire day) and apparently that 1 sample had all the same nutritional values as the mothers milk and no traces of any of the drugs that the father was taking 🤔 so it's all good for all men to "feed" their child this way 😱. This is the study that the NHS spokesperson use to justify their statements in the article @Helleofabore linked to.

And some genderist woman went on the BBC to claim, unchallenged that the male milk was nutritionally superior to women's

https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1804224074916258264

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13553033/BBC-News-report-misleading-trans-womens-milk.html

Here is a letter to BBC from Milli Hill that has links and discussion around that interview.

millihill.substack.com/p/dear-bbc-youve-got-your-facts-wrong

Helleofabore · 17/11/2024 18:52

Helleofabore · 17/11/2024 10:40

On some previous threads, some posters have brought up what about women with PCOS and testosterone. Here is a study and some commentary on that issue, although to be fair, we rarely see that argument supporting these male people these days. Maybe the message got through...

https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/16/2/244/649618?login=false

I found a study that looked at the hormone levels in women breastfeeding. A breastfeeding women without PCOS has the following testosterone levels at 4 weeks and 8 weeks of breastfeeding :

Ng/ml
4th wk 0.13
8th wk 0.11

A woman with PCOS (ng/ml)

4th week 0.21
8th week 0.26

The male who fed exclusively for 6 weeks started with 0.205 ng/ml or that could have been 2.56 ng/mol because the data is contradictory. That was with the suppression drug that was not noted to change in dose throughout this period because it was not tested.

HOWEVER that suppression is known to be unreliable so the level of testosterone may have fluctuated during the feeding time. Plus of course, there may have been an interaction with the other drugs.

Here is a doctor's view on this study and male feeding.

https://lascapigliata.com/2018/03/26/analysis-of-study-of-induced-lactation-in-trans-identified-man/

"On presentation, the patient was on a gender-affirming regimen that included spironolactone (a heart medication used in this case as an androgen blocker), estradiol, micronised progesterone and “occasional” clonazepam and zolpidem for panic disorder and insomnia."

"At initial appointment, the patient had gynaecomastia (abnormally enlarged breasts in a man, Tanner stage V) that was likely a side effect of spironolactone and cross-sex hormones he was taking."

"Interestingly, it’s unclear what was the patient’s serum testosterone level, because two markedly different results were given, one in the body of text – 256 ng/dL – and another in the results table 1. – 20.52 ng/dL."

"This is problematic not only because it constitutes a glaring inconsistency within the report, but also because the higher result indicates that the patient had male testosterone levels. Considering that the study reported no further testosterone data, indicating that they didn’t measure his testosterone level at any other point in the study, and that 75% of trans-identified men on spironolactone fail to reach testosterone level in the female range, and those who augment the treatment with estradiol have variable response, there is no reliable evidence that adequate androgen blockade was achieved, even though authors claimed that androgen blockade was an important part of the regimen."

And it goes on.....

Well worth a read

This is the updated version from Dr Bowen, an MD and author.

Both are worth reading, course.

https://lascapigliata.com/2023/07/03/case-study-2-experiment-of-induced-lactation-in-a-trans-identifying-male-excerpt-from-born-in-the-right-body/

CASE STUDY 2 – Experiment of Induced Lactation in a Trans-identifying Male (excerpt from ‘Born in the Right Body’)

NOTE: This is a chapter from my book ‘Born in the Right Body’, and it is based on my 2018 critique of “male lactation” experiments. This updated analysis comprehensively addresses all s…

https://lascapigliata.com/2023/07/03/case-study-2-experiment-of-induced-lactation-in-a-trans-identifying-male-excerpt-from-born-in-the-right-body

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 17/11/2024 19:01

Helleofabore · 17/11/2024 18:00

And yet, saying that people should avoid the discussion about the theoretical limits of supply for a male person in regards to the ethics as to whether any medical professional be encouraging these male people to do this, is limiting discussion in my opinion. Either people should be able to discuss this issue in relation to male people, or they should not.

As you say, we shall agree to disagree.

Is there any poster amongst the other information posted on this thread that has made this a sole focus? However, it forms part of the full information that is available to us to evaluate to make our own decisions about this issue.

Show quote history

Is there any poster amongst the other information posted on this thread that has made this a sole focus?

There have been a few posters who's only interaction with this thread has been to comment on women with low supply finding the low supply argument offensive and commenting on the use of domperidone. They and some other posters have also agreed with my points.

However I'm the only one you have decided to argue with which is why I have spoken about it for so long.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/11/2024 19:06

Here is a letter to BBC from Milli Hill that has links and discussion around that interview.

Good piece. Links to the terrible BBC interview itself if anyone is interested.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/11/2024 19:50

Isn't this all grim? A child centred society wouldn't entertain men demanding to feed babies like this. Yet here we are with once respected organisations like LLL actually centring these awful men.

Well done to all the women who've spoken up and thank you. In a depressingly porn soaked world it seems these porn addled men are being prioritised. Unforgivable.

Original poster

WandsOut · 19/11/2024 16:57

A sane society wouldn't be empowering men with a nipple fetish to get babies to such their nipples and yet here we are, unfettered access to as many lactating women as they want.

Would someone like to look at how many lactation fetish videos there are on pornhub? I suspect the numbers will be shocking. Part of the problem is the utter naivety of people to understand that a significant number of men have fetishes that are powerful enough to make them do anything in order to get that fetish fulfilled in the real world.

In this case with a real baby. Who is not consenting.

OP posts:

Original poster

WandsOut · 19/11/2024 21:44

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/11/2024 19:50

Isn't this all grim? A child centred society wouldn't entertain men demanding to feed babies like this. Yet here we are with once respected organisations like LLL actually centring these awful men.

Well done to all the women who've spoken up and thank you. In a depressingly porn soaked world it seems these porn addled men are being prioritised. Unforgivable.

💯

OP posts: