Do think that La Leche League are now a danger to babies?

[WandsOut]

www.thetimes.com/article/dbc0da0f-9255-47d9-8819-f407afeb233c?shareToken=0104affbaef0be8bc38b6f33d859c0aa

The bullying described here and the sheer idiocy of insisting by that biological males must be supported in breastfeeding is insane.

AIBU to say they have lost the plot and need to be investigated?

YABU - man milk is as good if not better than women's milk according to activists
"On Monday night, the BBC chose to discuss the man-milk affair with a young woman called Kate Luxion, an unqualified ‘trainee lactation consultant’ and a researcher at UCL. With a composed and serious expression, Luxion insisted that not only was man milk safe, but ‘studies’ had actually found that a trans woman’s milk contained more nutrients than the milk of a baby’s mother. The presenter nodded happily along. Nod, nod, smile, smile. Yep, sounded right to her."

archive.ph/2v26b

As mentioned previously many women with low supply are not combination feeding and are encouraged to continue exclusively breast feeding whilst their babies are not receivong enough under the guise that it will increase their supply. Well a lot of the time it doesn't and the babies starve.

Medical professionals will tell women they must give the baby formula because it is starving. Once the baby is admitted to hospital from following dangerous breast feeding advice they are fed formula by doctors. La Leche League and other breast feeding fanatics tell women not producing enough to just keep going don't give formula. Even when babies are losing weight they continue to push the do not give formula baby is just upping your supply agenda.

As I said, LLL have been dangerous to babies for a long time in my opinion.

Did you mean to suggest a man forcing a baby to suck his nipples is similar to being a gay or lesbian person?

Because it's pretty homophobic if so.

Being same sex attracted is not a fucking fetish and sexual relationships between consenting same sex adults do not cause any harm to other human beings.

It also doesn’t change, as in there is no colostrum stage or transitional milk. It is only comparable to mature milk. So nobody can claim that it is “as good as” milk from a woman who has given birth in the newborn stage, regardless of anything else.

I agree.

The post you quoted is probably the most offensive and damaging post on this thread despite the poster clearly falling over themselves to be ultra-PC, or whatever you want to call it. Vile. I’m sick of pervert apologists who will offend anybody in their way.

I don't approof trans women attempting to breast feed for the very real scientific concerns being discussed in this thread. As a scientist working in the medical field I find the implication of infection where there don't one silly.

Pervert apologist is a vile term to fire at someone you don't know.

It's been accepted for a long time that if you want to debate a point and being taken seriously you need to be factually correct. I agree with you that this practice should be banned but if we are going to have people agree with us we need to be seen to be having a factual debate and coming from a place of reason. When an argument is factually incorrect and is obviously coming from a place of hate people won't take us seriously, then we won't get anywhere.

And I don't disagree with you that women should be better cared for and not pressured into only breastfeeding.

How would you like to discuss the very valid concerns about male people feeding infants if they cannot be discussed with facts that related to the issues on a parenting site called 'mumsnet'?

Is the topic around male people feeding from their nipples not to be discussed in general because you, personally, find discussing a group of male people who are forcing their bodies to produce a substance that a male body is not formed to produce not to your liking?

Or is it just the feelings that discussion around supply that you don't think should be discussed?

Or is it the discussion around LLL in general that you disagree with?

So you’re shooting into your own fish barrel? You think a helpful input to a discussion is correcting somebodies spelling? Ok…

Btw, I think you meant ‘approve’ (aproof!?) and ‘where there don’t one silly’ doesn’t make any sense.

I will ask anybdoy who sounds like an apologist of perverts, like you did, if they are for clarity. I didn’t label you - I asked. This is a discussion of the most vulnerable members of society and perhaps more people need to be willing to call people out.

Have a day!

I don't know why people are assuming that @HorsePeopleAreStablePeople is supportingt the idea of males trying to breastfeed. Her initial post (11.09 today) was about her potentially dangerous experience with LLL. I have no difficulty in believing that as I saw from a distance that some women were absolutely fanatical about breastfeeding way back in the 90s when my children were born. I was fortunate to have no difficulties with breastfeeding, I enjoyed it and did it for over a year with each of my children, and I got there with excellent support from NHS midwives after my first child was born. However, if I had struggled, I would have gone over to formula rather than make my life a misery and risk my baby's health. Formula milk is OK. My brother and I were raised on it and we've turned out all right. Breast is best, undoubtedly, but not at any cost.

No one here is trying to say women who have used domperidone are harming their babies. Please don't for a second think this is about that.

It's the cocktail of other hormones on top for these males that's the issue here.
Along with the sexual fetish
And the complete lack of evidence for safety

So for every attempt, there is a woman handing over her tiny new baby for this experiment.
FFS. Why would you?

You realise that the co-founder of LLL has denounced them right?

@Decencydiedtoday it is not fiction. There is an article in the Sunday Times by the woman who resigned after being instructed by Head Office to allow all parents into the session. I think she will know the facts.

Princess Mom

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/princess-mom

Every single person should read this thread about Princess Mom and the women in the breastfeeding group who offered their babies up

Usually the male doing this is the baby's father. This is possible because the vast majority of trans-identifiying males do not have surgery on the genitalia. Of course on this thread we also have the case of a TIM who asked for help so he could 'breastfeed' a newborn grandchild.

In all these cases, it's possible the baby's mother has already made the decision not to breastfeed. I can't help worrying, though, that this decision may have been made under pressure from the male parent nagging away endlessly about what a privilege it's been for the mother to go through pregnancy and birth, how sad the male parent is not to be able to experience these things, how marvellous it would be if the female parent would just step back and let the male parent do the one thing doctors can facilitate, i.e. feed the baby. I can't imagine how browbeaten a woman would have to be to agree to this, but unfortunately we know from many accounts of women whose husbands/partners have come out as trans that the female partner's needs and wants come a long, long way behind the male's. Just one of many reasons why we all know they're not really women.

I think you will find people are responding to being told that discussing low supply as one of the issues is problematic.

Sadly, the depth of the issue cannot be discussed without discussing the drugs used (at rates higher than women use and for longer for one of the drugs that are seen as part of the issue). And it is important for showing the priorities of the medical staff involved when we point out that under direct medical supervision that at least two male people’s experience had been prioritised above the infant that they were feeding in a way.

That seems to have been the issues that Stable followed on to criticise others for discussing.

Princess Mom - from the Graham Linehan article -

Darone, who has actually fathered two children, intends to play-act a faux birth, replicating contractions and the pain of labour with an electrical muscle stimulator.

Princess Mom is a Girl Scout leader

@DragonFly98 Apologies, I certainly didn't intend any offence, I obviously didn't read up the drug in enough detail.

I am also a breastfeeding mum who has to take certain essential medication, so I am the last person who would want to cause upset.

If ever an example were needed of the narcissism of TIMs it would be this. His daughter is about to give birth and he decides it would be a great idea fro him to feed his grandchild so he can bond with them. Just WOW. Did a doctor indulge this? You don’t have to be trained in psychology to see how it’s just a way to make everything about them. His daughter’s maternal experience doesn’t matter. His grandchild doesn’t matter. It’s all about how things affect him. It’s a hideous, vile, grotesque way of centering yourself in the lives of everyone around you and it’s being encouraged!!

And you’re right about how if a grandmother tried this she rightly be told to stop being ridiculous. Can you imagine the AIBU? “MIL wants to induce lactation to breastfeed my PFB so she can bond. AIBU?” 🤢

There is no benefit to the baby whatsoever. This is child abuse

I think it should be discussed in a way that doesn't alienate women who have had anything other than a straight forward breast feeding journey. Not just myself but several women on this thread and other threads have been offended by the use of an insufficient supply being produced as a reason for disagreeing with trans women attempting to breast feed. Myself and others on this thread have been offended by the posters stating domperidone is dangerous, bad for babies, banned by the FDA, babies can't consent to ingesting the drug etc.

I also find it galling that it being said that LLL are encouraging trans women to starve their babies at the breast as a valid argument that it is wrong for trans women to attempt to breast feed when LLL encourage women with low supplies to starve their babies at the breast too.

LLL have been dangerous to babies long before now for those reasons in my opinion this is just another things they are missguided and they will get no support from me.

Not being able to establish a full milk supply is not the reason people have a problem with trans women attempting to breast feed so why is it being bought up as a good reason to object to the practice? The reason people object to this is because it is immoral for many reasons other than not having a full milk supply so let's stick to those and leave the supply out of it because it's irrelevant and upsetting.

A house divided cannot stand. Alienating women using domperidone or struggling with low supply only weakens the united front women should be presenting against this issue. This is the same reason I find the posters calling the fluids produced pus as if they don't know what an infection is irritating. Once you have alienated the women who had troubles breastfeeding themselves with emotive language about starving babies and shown that you're not interested in a factual debate you just want to show that you find trans people disgusting then the stance against it loses a lot of credibility and support, which is desperately needed.

I am against this practice, but it needs to be tackled properly or we won't get anywhere.

Thanks for posting this

Thank you , domperidone was the difference for me in being able to breastfeed or not as my autoimmune condition affects my supply.

@DragonFly98 I'm glad you found something that worked and helped you feed your baby.

I will request my original post is deleted.

Apologies @DragonFly98 I didn't mean any comparison with domperidone for women and I don't think there is one. These men will be taking wrong sex hormones in ridiculously large amounts. Do these cross over? How do they interact? What impact do they have on babies? As far as I'm aware domperidone has been extensively tested and only trace elements cross over. It is safe for babies. That isn't true of the drugs these men are taking.

"Not being able to establish a full milk supply is not the reason people have a problem with trans women attempting to breast feed so why is it being bought up as a good reason to object to the practice?"*

Because if a male person never has the body type to be ever able to produce the milk to be able to feed an infant, why has any organisation made this a priority (as one organisation has stated it should be)? But even more importantly, why have medical professionals allowed these male people to not provide enough nutrition to the infants while these infants were supposedly under monitoring and under a medical professionals care, as I have also described above.

There are valid reasons to discuss the lack of production in male people. And your wish to shape the discussion to exclude that lack of production means that people then do not have full information to make their decisions.

And this also goes for the discussion about domperidone. If a woman is prescribed domperidone, are they not being informed of the issues around duration of usage and having the interactions with other drugs discussed. No woman should be shamed for needing assistance that domperidone can give.

However, that should not mean that the issues of male people using that drug and all the other interactions that go with that drug and other drugs that they might be prescribed cannot be discussed and pointed out in posts.

"The reason people object to this is because it is immoral for many reasons other than not having a full milk supply so let's stick to those and leave the supply out of it because it's irrelevant and upsetting."

You, personally, may believe that objections should be only on the moral grounds. However, many people will not agree with you. And those reading will then need to have the full information that we have available to us to understand that there are not just 'moral' objections (which they may not agree with) but direct harms to the infant involved.

"Once you have alienated the women who had troubles breastfeeding themselves with emotive language about starving babies and shown that you're not interested in a factual debate you just want to show that you find trans people disgusting then the stance against it loses a lot of credibility and support, which is desperately needed."

I consider this paragraph is rather contradictory to your stance that this should be presented as being 'immoral'. Can you explain how you would present this issue based on immorality this without conveying any note of disgust about the male people who choose to do this?

How many of the 'factual' posts on this thread have been based on finding 'trans people' disgusting in general?

If you are telling women that we need to have a 'factual' discussion while then saying we cannot discuss all the implications that are known about the issue, isn't this rather contradictory?

By all means criticise poster's for their wording that you find offensive. However, I have seen enough of these discussions to know that your approach, that being to stick to the morality of the topic, gets dismissed all too often by people who fully believe that this is perfectly fine and healthy for the child involved. It also gets many posts deleted by people who feel the discussion is then based on hate.

I really don't believe that your approach of avoiding all discussion about supply and the use of domperidone is at all helpful to explaining why this is an issue.