Do think that La Leche League are now a danger to babies?

[WandsOut]

www.thetimes.com/article/dbc0da0f-9255-47d9-8819-f407afeb233c?shareToken=0104affbaef0be8bc38b6f33d859c0aa

The bullying described here and the sheer idiocy of insisting by that biological males must be supported in breastfeeding is insane.

AIBU to say they have lost the plot and need to be investigated?

YABU - man milk is as good if not better than women's milk according to activists
"On Monday night, the BBC chose to discuss the man-milk affair with a young woman called Kate Luxion, an unqualified ‘trainee lactation consultant’ and a researcher at UCL. With a composed and serious expression, Luxion insisted that not only was man milk safe, but ‘studies’ had actually found that a trans woman’s milk contained more nutrients than the milk of a baby’s mother. The presenter nodded happily along. Nod, nod, smile, smile. Yep, sounded right to her."

archive.ph/2v26b

This is horrifying.

I am very disappointed and concerned by this. I’ve always been a big supporter of LLL.

And Canada.

https://reduxx.info/canada-hiv-positive-trans-identified-male-boasts-of-breastfeeding-infant-with-professional-support/

And don’t let’s forget that male people find watching women feed babies a sexual fantasy as well. Indeed, we have have MNers tell us of male people in the past of joining breastfeeding online groups, making mothers uncomfortable with comments and questions etc. And those mothers, iirc, were asked to leave some groups because they were not accepting of those male people.

reduxx.info/uk-trans-identified-male-who-sparked-backlash-after-using-womens-changing-room-during-teen-swim-meet-engaged-with-erotic-breastfeeding-account/

This is surely all an elaborate hoax. It’s like an episode of Black Mirror.

While I completely disagree with men creating “breast milk” your comment is hurtful thousands of women are safely prescribed domperidone for low milk supply. It is perfectly safe for babies as the amount that passes into milk is negligible.

It’s banned for a different reason as I said the nhs routinely prescribes domperidone so do many other countries for low milk supply it’s perfectly safe for babies. How do think women prescribed this drug feel reading those comments. Stick to the facts.

no. unfortunately it is not.

Groups and organisations have had their standards of safeguarding lowered by this campaign for 'inclusion'. While on the surface, this inclusion sounds wonderful in theory.

However, it defies the very basis that the safeguarding was in place to protect women and girls from. MALE people. Regardless of their philosophical belief about their identity. Then comes in theories such as post modernist theories and gender identity theory and safeguarding standards are lowered. Because apparently a male can be considered a female when they say they are.

Some of us keep asking to see the evidence that a male at any stage in transition has lowered their risk profile (ie. the general group profile) of committing sex and violence related crime below that of the UK male general population. There is none ever forthcoming. But there IS evidence that this risk is not longer at all! And that is the MoJ prison statistics.

We have a situation that groups, including governments have been advised that they have to be seen to be inclusive of people's gender identities (the only commonality of which is based on a person's philosophical belief) and it has created these safeguarding loopholes. That is what so many feminist and women's rights groups are now trying to raise the alarm about - safeguarding! and being told, even just over the past week that we are bigots and haters.

It does feel like an elaborate hoax sometimes.

From the article Hellebore quoted at 9.54 this morning

Background: Lactation induction in transgender women is a clinical and research priority in the field of breastfeeding medicine

Why the hell is it a priority? Because we’ve fixed all the possible issues which might prevent a mother breastfeeding her baby? Or because mothers providing nutrition and other benefits to their babies is just so unimportant compared to a trans woman’s desires? After all, mothers can always bottle feed so 🤷‍♀️

😡 I do not understand how anyone can support this

Edited to add that while supporting transwomen to breast feed is a priority, apparently ensuring the secretions they produce are safe for babies is not so important???

The La Leche League have been dangerous to babies for a long time.

When struggling with my low milk supply due to PCOS I was advised I must keep going, do not offer formula under any circumstances, low supply isn't really a thing it's just poor management of breast feeding, don't fall into the formula trap! I took domperidone for a month and still couldn't produce enough to feed my baby. When I had improved my supply to roughly half what my baby needed and could combi feed, her latch was so poor due to tongue tie she couldn't get the milk out of the breast and was helplessly sucking on a full breast but still not getting milk. Those sycophants were adamant that I should put baby to the breast every single time she cried and deny her the formula top ups she desperately needed. She would eventually learn to get the milk out whereas if I gave her a bottle she would never learn because we would be enabling her not trying hard enough. Who cares if she starves in the meantime! I ended up pumping and bottle feeding her breast milk. Cue all the preaching that baby can get more milk than a pump, I don't really have a low supply it's just exclusive pumping that makes me think that way. Thats only true if baby's latch is good! If baby can't transfer milk from the breast due to oral issues they will never get anything substantial, nor the same amount as the pump let alone more!

I am not alone. LLL tell women with low supply to starve their babies at the breast for weeks on end, some end up in hospital with failure to thrive because of this dangerous advice. Formula is not poison and combi feeding is valid, babies still get all the protection breast feeding offers them.

The down side of combi feeding is cost, formula is expensive! But when you have low milk supply you have no choice. But LLL have been directly responsible for making formula so expensive as they lobbied for the laws that mean formula brands can't advertise and supermarkets cant include formula in discount schemes because they claimed it would discourage women from breast feeding, when actually all it does is punish those who can't and make it a scary reality that some women can't afford to feed their baby so they resort to dangerous practices like milk sharing from untested donor's on social media and watering down formula to make it last longer.

To bring it back to the argument, LLL didn't just encourage the trans woman to starve the baby at the breast, they encourage many woman to starve their babies at the breast.

The breast feeding support network was fantastic in helping me through my breastfeeding difficulties and supported me to combi feed for 6 months until I just couldn't keep up any more and my supply dried up completely. They also allow whole families to attend not just women so my husband learned all about breastfeeding and how he could help me and support me best. He was the one at home with me helping our tongue tied baby latch when I was totally overwhelmed and the midwives had abandoned us. LLL banned partners from helping or being involved and made them wait outside.

TLDR LLL have been a danger to babies experiencing feeding problems for a long time. If it was left to LLL my breastfeeding journey would have been over at 2/3 weeks and my baby would have been malnourished. The breastfeeding support network is far superior and have the ability to refer into the infant teams in hospitals which is what we needed and their continued support and acceptance of my husband enabled my baby to have breast milk for 6 months because the breast feeding support network offer real support whereas LLL offer militant ideology. I would be quite happy to see LLL be shut down altogether. BFN is more than enough, and better.

Man milk is the chemically induced excretions produced by men who identify as women who are taking a cocktail of drugs with the intent of "feeding" a baby 🤮

The issue is not necessarily Domperidone which is a chemical that I know many women who take it do so very carefully and with full consideration.

I think I did a search once and found it was the quantities and the duration of the treatment for sustaining this male supply versus anything which women were taking. I will go and find it.

However, it is also the complete lack of study of the interaction to Domperidone (needed by some women) with testosterone and any other (often quite a number) of drugs taken by those male people. I don't believe that the women taking the drug would be taking the drug regimen that these male people would be on, so those interactions would not be tested.

Hence, the focus on the composition of that substance.

I was prescribed domperideone, just the 10mg 3 times a day. I’d rather not think of my milk as drug induced fluid, but hopefully the disgust at the medication is only with regard to men taking it.

Grotbags and the institutions and narratives that play the trojan horse to their child abusing fetishes need to be completely jettisoned from society. This will be church scandal in the decades that come.

I think it would need more than a few sample studies as people break down / metabolise chemicals,.medications and hormones at different rates - eg opiates and how that presents in the sample will potentially differ per person and possibly within the same person over a day or week as metabolic rate may differ throughout days and over weeks.

I agree, for a full breakdown, especially in regard to drugs. But there wouldn't be anything stopping anyone looking at a simple chemical analysis and seeing if it is even in the same ballpark as formula re things like vitamins, minerals, protein, carbs etc.
If it is pretty similar, interested parties can choose to fund more research into the more complex issues you mention.
If it is not similar enough to formula to provide adequate nutrition, then that book is closed - ban it.

Surely as @Pelagi says, the comparison should be between formula and male milk. A male can't ever produce female milk anyhow so it's a moot point?

When I think of all the women who couldn't breastfeed for whatever reason and were shamed and felt long term guilt it makes me even madder.

Couldn't agree more.

The derision of supply enhancing drugs and the fact that that these threads often like to use the argument that they can't even produce a full supply and have to bottle feed alongside anyway so whats the point is deeply offensive to me and other women who struggled.

Of course the disgust is at males using these drugs.

I think I need to go and find where I did the comparison.

Either way, as I just typed out for Dragon, the issue actually is with the interaction with all the other drugs they take for transition and with their testosterone suppression. And I posted something about that comparison up thread. The issue is that testosterone suppression is notoriously unreliable and even with suppression, the testosterone levels is the high range for PCOS women. And does the suppression drugs change the testosterone composition even slightly to mean that any interaction is different and whether it is amplified in the substance they are secreting.

Do you see the issues? The issue is that chemicals react differently in male bodies. What is fine for a female body and how they process it, is reasonable to consider that it is different when interacting with a male body.

What they are feeding to infants has not been tested in any way that is adequate. They tested nutrition levels. That is it. And that nutrition level also is unchanging unlike the interaction between a mother and their child where the mother's body reacts directly to the needs of the child.

Your milk was assisted by a drug. It is naturally produced by your body. There is a huge difference.

It is 2 fold for trans issues - testosterone taken by natal women identifying as men and the hormone regime taken by natel men identifying as women

The milk really isn't the issue.

Its as if people have learned nothing from any safeguarding failure that has happened in the past.
Sex offenders will groom others not just to turn a blind eye to allow them access to children, but also to act as camouflage for them ('if we're all doing it its 'normal', and they can't arrest us all').
Its bad enough when social groups let that happen, its beyond belief that any organisation involved with children still hasn't grasped how grooming works.

Scaremongering overreaction. They promote breastfeeding, how the heck is this endangering babies?
Seems like the Daily Hate's usual fare, and as ever some people fall for it. Just like they used to with gay Scoutmasters and teachers. Exact same playbook.

Its not the same. We should be outraged that men are being encouraged to use babies to suck on their nipples, and that people are encouraging that.

I think you have to consider quantities. The study I just looked at had the transwoman on 100mg twice a day. It seems the most a woman might be prescribed is 20mg three times a day.

If a woman was desperate to breastfeed, and distressed that she couldn't, would she be prescribed 200mg a day? If not, why not? Would it be because of safety concerns?