Do think that La Leche League are now a danger to babies?

[WandsOut]

www.thetimes.com/article/dbc0da0f-9255-47d9-8819-f407afeb233c?shareToken=0104affbaef0be8bc38b6f33d859c0aa

The bullying described here and the sheer idiocy of insisting by that biological males must be supported in breastfeeding is insane.

AIBU to say they have lost the plot and need to be investigated?

YABU - man milk is as good if not better than women's milk according to activists
"On Monday night, the BBC chose to discuss the man-milk affair with a young woman called Kate Luxion, an unqualified ‘trainee lactation consultant’ and a researcher at UCL. With a composed and serious expression, Luxion insisted that not only was man milk safe, but ‘studies’ had actually found that a trans woman’s milk contained more nutrients than the milk of a baby’s mother. The presenter nodded happily along. Nod, nod, smile, smile. Yep, sounded right to her."

archive.ph/2v26b

Novel Lactation Induction Protocol for a Transgender Woman Wishing to Breastfeed: A Case Report

Esme D. Trahair, Sarah Kokosa, Andy Weinhold, Heather Parnell, Andrea B. Dotson, and Carly E. Kelley

27 March 2024

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/bfm.2024.0012

Background: Lactation induction in transgender women is a clinical and research priority in the field of breastfeeding medicine. To date, there are four case reports detailing successful induced lactation in transgender patients who wished to breastfeed. The Academy of Breast Feeding Medicine does not formally recommend a specific medication regimen for transgender patients due to lack of high-quality research.

Case Presentation: A 50-year-old transgender woman with a hypercoagulable disorder who was able to lactate and breastfeed with novel hormone regimen management at a gender care clinic. Her baseline hormone treatment was an estradiol 0.3 mg transdermal patch every 72 hours and micronized progesterone 200 mg daily.

Results: Within four weeks of initiating a modified hormone regimen (estradiol 0.4 mg patch every 72 hours, progesterone 300 mg daily, metoclopramide 10 mg three times daily), the patient was lactating spontaneously. On multiple occasions, she breastfed and expressed up to 30 mL of milk through pumping.

Conclusion: This report offers a new effective hormone regimen for transgender patients who wish to lactate and cannot access domperidone—the galactagogue used in previous case reports. It also provides a review of previously published case reports on this subject. Future research in this field should prioritize cohort studies of transgender patients who desire lactation to further assess patient attitudes, experiences, and outcomes.

Some more background on this:

https://x.com/millihill/status/1773343604678758886?s=20

The patient first expressed the unique desire to breastfeed her expected grandchild at an appointment with her endocrinologist in the spring of 2022. She disclosed that this was a last-minute idea that came to her very close to her daughter's due date. Her primary motivation for inducing lactation was to experience the bond from breastfeeding that she had not been able to experience with her own five children.

**

Remember, by 7 days old an infant requires 65 ml per day and for what reason would a medical professional in a country with ample supplies of donor breast milk and milk substitutes induce a new born's grandparent to lactate to assist their daughter? That desire is a red flag right there!

https://www.babycentre.co.uk/x553873/how-much-milk-does-my-baby-need-in-the-first-few-days

I see your point. But a simple chemical analysis surely wouldn't be too expensive? It's not a huge project with thousands of participants. They only need a few samples of man milk, because data on the composition of breast milk and formula is already available. I am certain the cost could be covered easily enough by interested parties/LLL/trans charities. The lack of enthusiasm to do so by interested groups is suspicious.

Yes 😢 and frankly it’s abusive to the most vulnerable and most important person involved in this - the newborn baby.

Meanwhile mothers who don't produce milk are made to feel they've in some way failed and are often given no support.

See also mothers who take epilepsy medication or other drugs for life threatening conditions.

There's no research on whether we can even use bonjella for a mouth ulcer while pregnant (or million other things) because no one would take the risk in exposing babies to this to find out.

Mother's deny themselves things which would make them feel better daily to avoid a risk to their babies.

And yet here we are because.... special.

For those who are interested in the science, here is some more to read.

A transitioned male expert was the one who was putting up alerts about this, not the two people who carried out the treatment.

www.newscientist.com/article/2161151-transgender-woman-is-first-to-be-able-to-breastfeed-her-baby/#ixzz6f2Pil0Ik

However, the woman’s breastmilk has not been assessed yet, so we don’t know if it has the same mix of components as in milk from new gestational mothers. This means the practice cannot yet be recommended, says Madeline Deutsch at the University of California, San Francisco. She says she can see the potential benefits of breastfeeding, but that the long-term impact of this milk on the baby – including on subtle measures like IQ – is unknown.

Deutsch herself is a transgender woman with a six-month-old baby who is currently being breastfed by Deutsch’s wife, who was the gestational mother. “I am very sad not to be able to breastfeed her and at the same time I did not consider doing this for the above reasons,” she says.

This was February 2018. I have not seen anything to prove that any in-depth studies have been released since to counter this expert's opinion. And there has been plenty of other threads since this that where these studies would have been posted by activist posters.

So, there we have it. A transitioned male, Associate Professor, Family Community Medicine, is telling the world that this is not advisable until further research.

And this is key too:

After three months of treatment, this increased to 227 grams of breast milk per day. Once the baby was born, she was able to exclusively breastfeed the infant for six weeks – during which time a paediatrician confirmed the baby was growing and developing normally and healthily.

Although significant, this is below the average of around 500 grams that a baby consumes by the time the it is 5 days old. After six weeks, the woman supplemented her breastfeeding with formula.

So.... for how many weeks did this infant receive half the nutrition it needed? This male only supplemented the feeding regime at SIX WEEKS!!!

And this was supposed to be monitored surely. It was an experiment. Why was this allowed!

From the New Scientist article.

Extraordinary. All the advice for pg women and breastfeeding women about nutrition. The sometimes shrill and aggressive urging that women don't eat this or that (never mind the correct screeching about alcohol and smoking). But the utter shaming of women who don't do what is 'right' for the baby.

Yet chemically induce the production of hormone laden pus so a male can have either his feelz validated or his fetishes propped up and it's all okay.

Well yes! Forcing a baby to latch to a male nipple is abuse. Are these men actually related to the child at all?

Yes someone close to me fell down this trap, I am all for breastfeeding but she felt she could never leave her children for a second and would have to home school them, she felt so guilty for ever taking a break.

yes.

And remember, these male people are taking these drugs based on modifying their body to fit their philosophical belief.

And in regards to your points on interactions with drugs in pregnancy, there are a group of female people who wish to destigmatise their choice to deliberately continue to take testosterone during pregnancy based again on their choice to modify their body to fit their philosophical belief when that testosterone has well documented negative impacts in pregnancy including the high likelihood of a child having a disability. As you say, people with medical conditions that require drugs known to have negative effects during pregnancy are told to stop taking these drugs. There seems to be a distinct lack of symmetry in regards to this one group compared to others. And the lack of symmetry points to the child never being centred in their decisions.

Here is the NHS's stance.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10892531/NHS-accused-putting-babies-harm-advice-trans-women-wanting-breastfeed.html

Apologies I haven’t/can’t read the thread, I’m a survivor of CSA and the male feeding issue is so so disturbing.
but to say you are being VVR

It gets worse. Women who discuss it online in Australia can be told they have broken the law. Because a male centred experience (there is no proven robust study done on these secretions to show they are safe in the long term) must only be celebrated apparently.

Two Australian Women Told They Broke The Law After Criticizing Trans-Identified Male Breastfeeding Child - Reduxx

This may need a content warning, so be warned this link show males talking about the amazing electric charge they get from infants feeding from their nipples amongst other things.

https://www.them.us/story/trans-women-breastfeed

This is an illuminating read and shows insight into the motivations for these male people who seek to do this.

What is very clear, is that this is NEVER about the child. This is never child centred. This is all about the male person's demands being met.

Please can someone explain "man-milk" to me as though I'm an idiot. My understanding of "chestfeeeding" was a biological woman who has decided she's now a male yet feeding a baby so the substance being fed is still breast milk.

If it is anything other than that then what on earth is it? 🤢

The patient first expressed the unique desire to breastfeed her expected grandchild at an appointment with her endocrinologist in the spring of 2022. She disclosed that this was a last-minute idea that came to her very close to her daughter's due date. Her primary motivation for inducing lactation was to experience the bond from breastfeeding that she had not been able to experience with her own five children.

Imagine the reaction if a woman (female) said "I'm sad I didn't breastfeed my children, but my daughter is pregnant so I want to breastfeed my grandchild!"

People would rightly ask her what the fuck she was thinking.

What are they putting in the water? So many Men trying to be everything/anything but good men. So fucking depressing 😞.

What is very clear, is that this is NEVER about the child. This is never child centred. This is all about the male person's demands being met

Yes. The baby is a prop for the man’s desires (I want to use another word, but there’ll be monitors on this thread). It’s child abuse

There's two different things. Transmen (biologically female) who have given birth and then going on to breastfeed. I don't think anyone has any issue with this, although people may object to using the term chest feeding rather than breastfeeding.

Transwomen who want to breastfeed is what's being talked about here. This is drug induced. I do think this is a very very niche issue (which begs the question why the research someone posted upthread referred to it as a "clinical priority" for breastfeeding research - because of course all the research on females breastfeeding is done and dusted so may as well move on to the males 🙄).

Those poor babies being fed strong drugs at the most vulnerable point of their lives. Fucking hell. All to feed their fathers' fantasies. These men should be arrested not enabled. How far does this have to go? Does a baby have to die? God help us all.

This is from the original article

https://archive.is/ekhDf

Anyway

This is a medically trained male paramedic who did this by the way.

There have been numerous threads about this in the past and never once have we been offered any benefit for the infant in all this. Not once.

Quite a few issues in that original article about Buckley.

Here are a few statements:

''To know I could breastfeed my own child and have that experience, I wanted to be a part of that. I wanted to know what it was like to be a mum and breastfeed."

and

'I will never know what's it like to menstruate or carry a baby or give birth,' Ms Buckley said.

'But to be told I could have the opportunity to breastfeed, it was something that was nice to be able to experience as a trans woman.'

and

'The first time it came out I just started leaking,' Ms Buckley said. 'Then I pumped and it was a weird feeling having a suction cap suck out milk, but it was exciting.

'I thought, "Oh my God, I am actually producing human milk".'

and

'Apart from the milk he was getting from me he was essentially starving,' Ms Buckley said of the couple's hungry son

'I genuinely believe had I not brought my breast milk into the hospital he could have become very sick with liver and kidney issues from lack of nutrition.'

and

'It was sad. It was frustrating, but as brief as it was, I did get to experience it. I would have preferred to do it a lot longer. But Auden's wellbeing was paramount.'

I am really looking forward to posters telling us just what about this interview is not pointing out that this all about the male. What part of these statements above are about the child.

Even when HCP's pointed out that the baby was starving, it was all about that adult male.

'paramedic Jennifer Buckley was warned by doctors against trying to nourish newborn son Auden from her own chest but she went ahead anyway.'

and

'The controversial practice has been criticised by specialists as experimental and unethical but Ms Buckley believed she had the right to breastfeed her infant.'

and

'Ms Buckley said when doctors at the hospital learnt she was trying to breastfeed Auden they warned Ms Honnery-Buckley it could put her newborn at risk.'

and

'Apart from the milk he was getting from me he was essentially starving,' Ms Buckley said of the couple's hungry son'

Why was the hospital letting an infant ‘starve’? Or did this couple refuse formula and manufacture the need for this male to then ‘rescue’ the newborn by feeding their son? It should be noted the medical team for the baby thought this was not an advisable option. This male did it anyway!

Maybe those posters who support this male feeding secretions to that infant, can also then point out just how that male feeding the newborn, whatever the substance was they were producing was, how are they providing the newborn nutrition if the composition is unknown?

I doubt we will get any answers though.

That this endrocrinologist has spoken at AusPATH about this, and has 'assisted' FIVE other males to do this, I suspect each state in Australia will have some males to have done this already and quite a few more will be aiming for it.
The usual 'only one / two/ a few' rhetoric would be misinformed.

see below:

Dr Naomi Achong, a former president of Australian Professional Association for Trans Health (AusPATH), is the Brisbane endocrinologist who recommended Ms Buckley breastfeed Auden.

It is understood she has helped five other transgender women breastfeed.
Dr Achong spoke on the topic of 'lactation induction in transfemales' at a AusPATH conference last weekend and her talk was one of the most booked events.

I believe that I have since read that there have been more male people assisted. I think I remember nine being mentioned.

This horrifies me - LLL should be utterly ashamed. I don't think men have the same structures in their breasts to do this.
Let us call it what it is - child abuse.
It's also abuse of breastfeeding Mothers - how dare they remove women's words and break the bond between women and children. This is evil.

On some previous threads, some posters have brought up what about women with PCOS and testosterone. Here is a study and some commentary on that issue, although to be fair, we rarely see that argument supporting these male people these days. Maybe the message got through...

https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/16/2/244/649618?login=false

I found a study that looked at the hormone levels in women breastfeeding. A breastfeeding women without PCOS has the following testosterone levels at 4 weeks and 8 weeks of breastfeeding :

Ng/ml
4th wk 0.13
8th wk 0.11

A woman with PCOS (ng/ml)

4th week 0.21
8th week 0.26

The male who fed exclusively for 6 weeks started with 0.205 ng/ml or that could have been 2.56 ng/mol because the data is contradictory. That was with the suppression drug that was not noted to change in dose throughout this period because it was not tested.

HOWEVER that suppression is known to be unreliable so the level of testosterone may have fluctuated during the feeding time. Plus of course, there may have been an interaction with the other drugs.

Here is a doctor's view on this study and male feeding.

https://lascapigliata.com/2018/03/26/analysis-of-study-of-induced-lactation-in-trans-identified-man/

"On presentation, the patient was on a gender-affirming regimen that included spironolactone (a heart medication used in this case as an androgen blocker), estradiol, micronised progesterone and “occasional” clonazepam and zolpidem for panic disorder and insomnia."

"At initial appointment, the patient had gynaecomastia (abnormally enlarged breasts in a man, Tanner stage V) that was likely a side effect of spironolactone and cross-sex hormones he was taking."

"Interestingly, it’s unclear what was the patient’s serum testosterone level, because two markedly different results were given, one in the body of text – 256 ng/dL – and another in the results table 1. – 20.52 ng/dL."

"This is problematic not only because it constitutes a glaring inconsistency within the report, but also because the higher result indicates that the patient had male testosterone levels. Considering that the study reported no further testosterone data, indicating that they didn’t measure his testosterone level at any other point in the study, and that 75% of trans-identified men on spironolactone fail to reach testosterone level in the female range, and those who augment the treatment with estradiol have variable response, there is no reliable evidence that adequate androgen blockade was achieved, even though authors claimed that androgen blockade was an important part of the regimen."

And it goes on.....

Well worth a read

Cow Achievement apparently

https://www.tiktok.com/@nominal.naomi/video/7235719967327456558

Yet, we are being told by posters that this is all child centred and is just for the infant.

There are plenty of more examples out there.

Including the one from a male feeding from their nipple about the 'electric' nipple sensation with an infant latching and how mother's must spend their days in an erotic fantasy while breast feeding.

This is awful, you think it can’t get any worse and then it does. There’s only one reason why a man wants to be in a room full of breastfeeding women