To stop using Mumsnet for a while because of the constant negative comments about men?

[listsandbudgets]

I've just posted a thread about my missing (now turned up) friend. So many posters assuming that her DP was violent, controlling etc. etc.

Someone else posted about their DP getting a letter from child maintenance about a child he'd never met - again people slagging him of for "sowing his oats" implying he'd been violent and god knows what.

That's just 2 examples. There are some horrible men out there of course there are but it makes me so sad to see this constant underlying misandry here on mumsnet. Men our are sons, brothers, partners and fathers and the very vast majority of them are decent people - flawed perhaps, made some mistakes perhaps but that does not make them violent controlling etc. etc. it makes them human.

Please stop it mumsnet. Certainly attribute blame where it's genuinely due but stop making these awful assumptions it's unhelpful and nasty.

Signing off will be back in a few weeks to see whether or not things have improved - doubt it sadly

I don’t really care what you do, rant if you like.

But IMO saying to boys how awful men as a class are won’t automatically make them think “oh she doesn’t mean ME” - it could dent their self esteem, or make it seem like any kindness is pointless. That’s what a rant is - having a big moan, not always a measured or reasonable moan.

I personally talk about what women have to go through in life, all the problems they’ll face because of their biology and would say it in a “count yourself lucky” kind of way. My DS has known about periods since toddlerhood (kinda had to tell him anyway he’s seen me bleed), he knows women only give birth and that it’s extremely painful, he now knows about smears as there was a leaflet the other day in A&E with a cartoon of a woman having a smear. He was asking about what she was having done, so I told him. We were there because Poor lad was doubled over in agony, thought it was appendicitis and turned out he’d twisted his testicle - he even pointed out after that he’d still rather have testicles as smears sound horrible. He kind of knows how shit it is to be a woman, I think. This can be done without the whole AMAB rant, IMO

But you wouldn’t think it based on what some people post.

I also think it’s fair to point out that we all think we are right in what we say that men as a class are shit. We have stats to support this. But many men genuinely think they are right in ranting about women too - the same way we do about men. Either humans have the right to rant their opinions or they don’t, it’s a dodgy standard to have in the first place IMO

All men know how shit it is to be a woman. It's getting to care that's hard. Getting them to do anything about it, even harder.

Okay, bye then.

Go in peace OP and remember, a muppet's consensus is all it takes to make a village idiot of a discerning individual in a village full of them.

See I agree with you except on your first point. I have met men in the past who genuinely believe women have it easier. It usually centres around “You can use your attractiveness to get your own way” 🙄 which shows they only see attractive women as being valid. Hey ho.

And TBH I don’t particularly want men “doing something” about women’s biological problems. They should stay in their lane and put their own houses in order.

I think it depends on the individual person's experience. I have had wonderful men in my life - my late father, my brother, my husband, my FIL and many male friends. I also have two little boys who are kind and considerate. So my experience of men is very different but I can understand that some people might have had bad experiences/been in abusive relationships.

I’m actually glad people have brought up the issue of racism because it is similar in that there is a historical oppressor class and an oppressed class (though there will of course be differences).

I am white. I do not object to people of colour being wary of white people until they know that individual; they have a reason, all other things being equal, to expect worse treatment from a white person. This is based on the absolute shit show of historic treatment of people of colour that we all know about, the repercussions of which are very much part of our current culture. It’s absolutely imperative that white people take extra care to counteract racism whenever they can and bring their children up accordingly.

Why are men so upset if women feel similarly about men? The parallels are definitely there. In fact, it wouldn’t be the white people in this analogy getting upset - it would be the people of colour getting upset about those of their race being mean about white people. Does that sound realistic?! Or does it sound absurd?

😂 the team were that way before I got them love try again.

When the team were mixed they were great, its only when they split it in half they went like that. When they were put back together again and the fury was diluted we went back to being a happy productive team.

I was not their manager, I was their supervisor. Whenever instructions were passed on from management who were off-site during COVID I would get shouted at angrily for 20 minutes as if I had any power to change what they were being told. They would then spend the next hour ranting among themselves about what was being asked of them. Thoroughly unpleasant.

They just sound like a nightmare team tbh. Not sure how that’s particularly relevant to a discussion about the historic and continued oppression of women by men.

very few people would be labelling a 7 year old boy, who lacked empathy, abusive.

It’s ironic that you see ‘sweet little boy’ as passive aggressive but had no problem using the term ‘ickle princess’.

Because it was used passive aggressively. Ickle Princess is how parents IME treat their bully daughters. So shoot me

But what stats or data would men be using?! Women have actual hard facts about men’s awfulness- crime figures, data on sexual assault and rape, domestic abuse figures. All incredibly damning for the male sex class.

When you see men laying into women online it’s always hateful incel stuff which is basically men despising women because they’re women. There is no parallel.

I didn’t say it would be reasoned ranting. Stats or not, I don’t think doing this is helpful about either sex.

And with respect I don’t need you to tell me about women’s inequalities

Obviously it's not. It's an explanation that my team aren't just awful because I'm "a sexist manager" which is what some idiot was claiming when I said all the bullying I've ever endured in the workplace and at school has been perpetrated by women, not men, hence I prefer male company.

Whether anyone agrees with that or not is irrelevant, I have only ever been bullied by women so prefer male company. That's it, the end. Don't know why someone was determined to make it my fault.

I think I've learnt what ranting is, thanks to just one poster 😈

And yet someone saying ‘sweet boy’ is passive aggressive but your ‘ickle princess’ isn’t.

Some people treat sons like ‘sweet little boys’ when they are bully’s.

So why is it ok for you to do, but not others to do it the other way round?

Because you find is acceptable when it’s about a girl. But not when it’s about a boy. There’s a reason for that.

Why do they both have to be PA. I didn’t use mine passive aggressively. mine was a dig at non-existent parent’s perception of their daughters The other poster was a dig at my son and me because apparently there are no nice boys just deluded parents 🤣

My sweet little boy isn’t a bully. HTH.

Ok. But a lot of your posts have sort of indicated that you don’t like girls very much. You seem a bit fixated on the idea of little girls being mean. It hasn’t been easy to square all your posts with an understanding of how the world is skewed against girls from their earliest childhood.

No, I just think that girls can be problematic which seems to go against the MN belief that girls and women are infallible.

Some little girls ARE mean. It’s really riled some people up that I’ve said that 🤣 the fact we live in a patriarchy doesn’t mean all girls are lovely and never do wrong and that boys are never the victims of anything. You can pretend otherwise but I’ll stay as I am

Hang on. You prefer male company to female.

You feel more comfortable around men because of you past experiences around women. You judge all women as people you feel less comfortable around because of some women you have interacted with.

And yet, you object to women who feel the same about men? Given men are to blame for the vast majority of physical violence, surely you agree women have even more reason to be uncomfortable around men.

Why is it ok for you to not feel comfortable around women? But women not to feel the same about men. Especially given that men pose a far higher risk to their personal safety.

Well no it wasn’t.

the poster followed up. You assumed it was. Yours was a dig…exactly. But you perceive another poster doing the same and it’s not ok?

Who said there’s no nice boys? Who said all girls were angels and never caused an issue.

No one. does it help to make things up?

Who accused your son of being a bully? I certainly didn’t.

I think this is a straw man that you (and some others) have built.

No one has said girls and women are infallible. Not even close.

I wrote a fairly long post upthread about the very specific bullying in which girls tend to participate.

You have riled people up with the language you’ve used about little girls (lickle princess or such like) and it’s hard to see some of your contributions as anything other than a chance to lob some insults at primary age girls!

No one who understands this debate is saying all girls are blameless and all boys are trouble.

Where have I said I feel uncomfortable around women? I just don't like the way women treat other women especially in group settings. I'm not uncomfortable or intimidated, I just don't like it. Many women I know can't stand the bitchyness that inevitably occurs in female dominanted spaces and prefer male friends or just prefer solitude. I am the same. So it's not a like for like parallel like the one you're trying to present. I was pointing out that all the bullying I have ever endured was at the hands of women in reply to posters claiming all men are bullies and women would never because they're the victims in society.

Women are perfectly entitled to feel uncomfortable with men but that's not what this thread was about. The thread was about the out and out misandry seen here all the time. Which no, I don't think is reasonable.

The parallel to that would be me posting hateful comments about women constantly accusing them all of heinous acts and definitely being terrible people no matter how nice they appear. Which is also unreasonable. So I'm not sure why people are trying to paint me as a misogynist just because I don't believe all women are good and unproblematic.

Please tell me where I have said it's not ok for women to feel uncomfortable around men? Please also tell me where I said I feel uncomfortable around women? You're making things up to fit some sort of narrative here.

The thread was about the out and out misandry seen here all the time. Which no, I don't think is reasonable.

Can you post any examples/evidence of the out and out misandry seen here all the time? If it's all the time it should be pretty easy.