To stop using Mumsnet for a while because of the constant negative comments about men?

[listsandbudgets]

I've just posted a thread about my missing (now turned up) friend. So many posters assuming that her DP was violent, controlling etc. etc.

Someone else posted about their DP getting a letter from child maintenance about a child he'd never met - again people slagging him of for "sowing his oats" implying he'd been violent and god knows what.

That's just 2 examples. There are some horrible men out there of course there are but it makes me so sad to see this constant underlying misandry here on mumsnet. Men our are sons, brothers, partners and fathers and the very vast majority of them are decent people - flawed perhaps, made some mistakes perhaps but that does not make them violent controlling etc. etc. it makes them human.

Please stop it mumsnet. Certainly attribute blame where it's genuinely due but stop making these awful assumptions it's unhelpful and nasty.

Signing off will be back in a few weeks to see whether or not things have improved - doubt it sadly

It was a single case that made it to court.

Her husband offered her up on a website (one of many worldwide) for men looking to have sex with drugged women who can't consent.

And as pp said: the "good ones" in this cassé said "no" but did nothing to help her. Fuckers

Well, you were. The discussion was originally about the general devastation visited on women by men and the massive problem with men as a sex class.

@Youthiswastedontheyoung

I have literally never seen - or heard - any stay-at-home-mum say this. 'I will stay home as a stay-at-home-mum and home-maker, but my husband can still do half of everything in the house, and share the childcare, and do half the grunt work and domestic shit, as well as working 50 hours a week in his high pressure job.'

Literally no stay-at-home-mum says or thinks anything like this.

She may want the husband to take a demanding baby or toddler off her hands for an hour a couple of times a week, while she has a shower, and a fucking rest for a bit, but like hell do stay-at-home-mums expect their DH to do half of everything in the house, and the grunt work and domestic shit (as well as doing a full time job!)

Moreover, like fuck would any man do it! (If his wife didn't work!)

@BalletCat frankly the cognitive dissonance from you between that issue of bullying and then the statistics I shared is astonishing.

Statistically men are the main perpetrators of violence. HTH

Can you see what you're doing @BalletCat and @EvilsElsasPetSnowman ?

You are dismissing any problem faced by a female to immediately jump to the defence of males.

This happens a lot in society, often subconsciously, and this constant drip may well be a factor in to why men are so much more likely to be in prison.

For Balletcat, you dismissed the sexual assault problem for females with a 'well we're talking about bullying'. We weren't. You were.

For Evils, you dismissed the girl who was pushed over in your own anecdote, and your go to was to insult her despite the fact she'd done nothing wrong whatsoever.

These instant, automatic, without thinking comments are misogyny.

i have a son. He is a mid teen.

I have no clue. I hope I have brought him up well and he has compassion and is kind. Just like his sister. And they both have good boundaries.

But I am also not the type of person to say anyone ‘could never’ because the truth you don’t know.

I think I can predict my best friends behaviour, my dps, my kids. But I don’t know.

Anyone saying ‘my son, father, brother would never’ is wrong. Which is why the ‘I know any men apart from good men and my father, son, brother would never be less than decent’ doesn’t make sense. Because you don’t know .

You do you. No need for an announcement. I work on the premise that precisely no mumsnetters will be sat wondering where I am if I take some time away from the site.

misandry is a boring myth, this year the UK government declared femicide a national threat. When it comes to the bear or the man I know which I’m choosing

But since @BalletCat is so keen to talk about bullying, I will address this.

It’s true there can be some awful bullying amongst girls. I see it as a teacher and as a mum. The quiet, purposeful exclusion or whispered meanness. And I do agree boys do this less.

Girls who do this should be held to account.

But I also see it as a symptom of our gendered (patriarchal) society that boys and girls behave differently in these ways. Girls and women are traditionally the ones without power, who have had to fight for scraps of power by aligning themselves with men and clamouring for male attention. Undermining each other is part of this, unfortunately.

People will often say that women are the worst critics of other women, with reference to criticising appearance and sexual behaviour etc. I guess there’s some truth to this. Women might exhibit jealousy over another woman’s ability to attract men or may court men’s approval by condemning the sexual behaviour of another- traditionally the latter was a way of protecting herself because a woman’s reputation was everything. The patriarchy taught women to be ‘pick-me’s - which is why I despise that put-down.

Girls and women should break free from these behaviours and call them out when they see them. It’s part of the fight.

But you think all kids push people over. so if a little girl or boy pushes your son over and you don’t speak to the teachers, how does that make you a superior person or parent?

TBH both my kids have been pushed over at 5 and I’ve told them to tell a teacher if it happens again. Being melodramatic and using words like “violence” is not how I parent. I don’t want anxiety ridden kids thanks. If it’s persistent that’s different

Are you suggesting parents of girls target little boys?

Yes. I have seen it from “girl mums” that they teach their girls that the boys are enemies. I even ditched a friend once because she had all girls and she let her treat my son (3/4 at the time) appallingly and they’d say he’s a smelly boy, has boy germs etc. when challenged my friend said her girls “Just aren’t boy people”.

I also see “boy mums” be very problematic towards girls. It’s a problem on both sides but it seems it’s only unacceptable if girls are the target.

When a boy behaves in an unacceptable way, anyone complaining is targeting because they are boys?

No. Where did you get that idea? I’ve said the way it’s treated is completely different, and I stand by that.

Do parents of boys never complain? How many times has this happened with your kids that you believe parents of girls target boys?

See above. I’ve seen it a few times with parents of all girls AND all boys.

maybe parents of boys are less likely to complain because of the damaging stereotypes that impact both boys and girls. That doesn’t make it ok.

Who knows.

But a 5yo pushing in the playground is not violence - but people act like when boys do it it is. Look at the responses to my post.

Funnily enough both my DC have had problems with bullying and only from girls. Never boys. And I do feel that because the perpetrators were girls it was downplayed massively. I told the school this. One took the hand of my 7yo boy (who has never hurt a soul in his 7 years and is extremely kind) and dragged a stone across it cutting his palm open. I felt like it was downplayed, I had to make real efforts for them to see this as unacceptable and had the tables been turned I’m sure I’d have been getting a phone call.

This attitude does not help boys and it certainly doesn’t help girls and women

Girls and women should break free from these behaviours and call them out when they see them. It’s part of the fight.

I agree but what I will say is there is extraordinary power in males calling out other males. My DH does, I tell my son to call out bad behaviour. I don’t think it’s up to women to fix all the problems

@OPsSockpuppet
I really hope you are my children's teacher.

I have only had horrible experiences of men my whole life, cruel, selfish, violent and controlling.
The only men I can stick now in my 60's are my adult DS and my gay best friend.

Bollocks.
My post is a clear and accurate (but not exhaustive) representation of the things that women rightly find objectionable about men. Finding those things unacceptable is not misandry. Expecting women to accept them is MISOGYNY. So look to your own attitudes.

Yes. Agreed most definitely.

Literally!!!

So it’s a problem on both sides. Impacting both sexes?

But your insult was aimed towards the girl in situation whilst labelling the boy as just ‘being a kid’?

Girls bullying is never acceptable. You are right.

Both my dc have never had problems with girls. That doesn’t change the statistics.

I never used the word violent. However at what age do you think it goes from ‘just kids messing about’ to violence.

i am not sure how you can say a 5 year old pushing someone is never violent? What’s the difference between kids being kids and violence?

Banning a word from your parental vocabulary is quite strange. but that’s your choice. That doesn’t mean the people used the word here are using it incorrectly.

Yes of course it’s a problem on both sides, I never claimed otherwise. The difference is in how the sexes are treated as children.

What insult did I aim at a girl pushing a boy over? Have you got the right poster??

Both my dc have never had problems with girls. That doesn’t change the statistics.

No it doesn’t but saying to a boy who’s been the victim of a girl bullying “Well men are really violent”…who does that help?

i am not sure how you can say a 5 year old pushing someone is never violent? What’s the difference between kids being kids and violence?

Playing tig and tigging too hard so a kid falls be purposefully targeting someone to inflict violence (something I rarely see TBH) for example.

Banning a word from your parental vocabulary is quite strange. but that’s your choice. That doesn’t mean the people used the word here are using it incorrectly.

Again have you got the right poster? I haven’t mentioned banning a word

You used the derogatory term ‘Ickle Princess’. Not about girls pushing over boys. About a girl who was pushed over by a boy.

So girl gets pushed over and because her parents aren’t happy you level an insult at the child?

It’s bizarre. No one is talking about a boy accidentally knocking into someone. No one is using the word violence for that. Knowing into someone and pushing them over is 2 different things.

you also said Being melodramatic and using words like “violence” is not how I parent hence my response.

Who is saying girls never do anything wrong? That’s not what this conversation or thread is about. No one is justifying children bullying other children.

It’s completely irrelevant. We aren’t comparing men and women. We are talking about why so many women feel that most men are not decent people. And that’s because of the behaviour of men.

Not because girls or the parents of girls complain when a young boy pushes their daughter over.

No I was commenting about people (mostly on MN) who brush off boys being hurt by girls and infantilise girls when they hurt boys. It’s the parents who push the “not my princess” narrative, both IME and what I see on MN.

So girl gets pushed over and because her parents aren’t happy you level an insult at the child?

Nope. You’ve read it wrong. I didn’t insult any child. I insult the people who deal with it in a sexist manner.

I didn’t say I ban the word violence. Again with the twisting. I said I would never tell my child that they are a victim of violence of a 5yo pushing them. Largely because I don’t scaremonger my kids. Children run around, they barge and they sometimes accidentally hurt others because they don’t know their own strength and have dodgy dexterity. Because they’re children. Equating that with violence is absolutely bonkers.

I’ve posted a few times on MN that I don’t like to girls bullying boys is played down and it really seems to upset some people.

*We are talking about why so many women feel that most men are not decent people. And that’s because of the behaviour of men.

Firstly this thread is about demonising men. I have said I don’t like it when boys are demonised because people hate men. Hate men, I get it - but don’t project onto little boys.

Not because girls or the parents of girls complain when a young boy pushes their daughter over.

Im really not sure if you haven’t read my posts properly or if you’re being obtuse…but I never mentioned anything about parents of girls who have been pushed over. I have mentioned the narrative around when girls of push boys over. I didn’t even say anything about parents, this thread is about mumsnet posts. Do you see the difference? Or do you struggle to imagine that a girl could ever be horrible to a boy? Because your brain read something entirely different to what I posted.

You might want to have a re read of your own post

Honestly you need to read your owns posts back.

I didn’t say you wanted to ban it from everyone’s.

I said you said that it’s not part of you parenting to use words like violence. So you have banned it from your parenting vocabulary.

You criticised me banning a word when that’s not what I was doing. I said I wouldn’t use it in that situation. You could touch the stars with that reach.

i don’t need to read my posts back, I stand by what I have said. This thread is about men hating on MN and I do think, whilst obviously men are the problem (in general!), there’s deep unfairness on MN even when it comes to little boys. There is. And when it’s pointed out some posters lose their shit - which I find…interesting.

no man is going to defend you the way you are defending them here

This really is worth repeating. All those who are desperately defending men could do with really thinking on this sentence. You could go to reddit, or pistonheads, or 4chan and you could spend an entire week searching through the posts on there - you wouldn't find a single one from a man saying 'you're all such meanies about women, i'm leaving'.

They don't think better of you because you are happy to beg on your knees for crumbs from their table.

You genuinely think it has "swung" too far the 'other way'? Really? Really really? Women are dieing at the hands of their male partners every single week. Women are SAd every single day. The internet is full of utter hate for women, absolute contempt, and you think it's gone too far and someone needs to think of the poor men? I despair.