To stop using Mumsnet for a while because of the constant negative comments about men?

[listsandbudgets]

I've just posted a thread about my missing (now turned up) friend. So many posters assuming that her DP was violent, controlling etc. etc.

Someone else posted about their DP getting a letter from child maintenance about a child he'd never met - again people slagging him of for "sowing his oats" implying he'd been violent and god knows what.

That's just 2 examples. There are some horrible men out there of course there are but it makes me so sad to see this constant underlying misandry here on mumsnet. Men our are sons, brothers, partners and fathers and the very vast majority of them are decent people - flawed perhaps, made some mistakes perhaps but that does not make them violent controlling etc. etc. it makes them human.

Please stop it mumsnet. Certainly attribute blame where it's genuinely due but stop making these awful assumptions it's unhelpful and nasty.

Signing off will be back in a few weeks to see whether or not things have improved - doubt it sadly

I don’t really care. I genuinely have sleepless nights worrying about my girls and how I can protect them from men and some of the experiences I had.

I've found this is one of the few places on the internet where you can have a discussion about the problems around men and I also find it's largely rational. Everywhere else is full of misogyny, incels, Andrew Tate sycophants etc.

Oh this is gold <chefs kiss>

I’m sure you’re doing a great job protecting your children, but do you ever worry you might be instilling an unhealthy amount of fear and anxiety in them? Do they have safe men in their lives, with whom they have positive interactions? (I hope you don’t mind me asking. Just something I think about any time my particular anxieties become noticeable to my DC.)

And Moslems
And The Other Woman

🤷‍♀️

@OPsSockpuppet when I was a trainee solicitor we had a client who was definitely falsely accused of rape. I could tell from the way that everyone involved in the case was talking that it’s extremely unusual.

It’s giving Helen Lovejoy from The Simpsons “won’t somebody please think of the children” - some moral outcry that isn’t anything to do with the debate at hand, but bringing children into the context to appeal and as some kind of top trump on a moral high ground.

People don't post on here to brag what a wonderful man they have why are you surprised

A better topic might be Why?why are men such shits?
I teach all ages, and a lot of very very very lovely little boys. Pre puberty they are a delight as a cohort.
So - what happens?

I’m so sorry this has caused you sleepless nights. I have a 2yo boy and I hate the argument that they are worried about strong independent women having a legitimate fear of men is going to effect their sons 🫠 I have a legitimate fear that people like Andrew Tate and other predominant male figures 👀 and social media algorithms may impact my son - and have sleepless nights worrying about how I bring my son up in a world like this and make sure he becomes a kind decent human being who advocates for others as I try to ❤️

They go from only experiencing their home world to seeing more of the real world, they see how the media encourages division, they get access to social media and the bots and algorithms. 😢 It’s the stuff that makes me so sad when I look at my joyful toddler 💔

for sure not all men are bastards

But you had to point out how unusual your dad was 40 years or so ago. It would be exactly the same now.

5 year olds shouldn't be pushing others over. It is a problem because people like you are handwaving it away with "boys will be boys" because IME this doesn't happen nearly as often the other way round.

Doesn't bother me. Most men ARE actually pretty shit. Not all, but most. All the ones in my life have been (aside from my DS) my DS isn't an adult yet so hopefully I've managed to bring him up to be a decent man, time will tell.

So most women are shit mothers then?

Not at all, but I think it's important to look at what stereotypes you're modelling in the household. That goes for both mothers AND fathers, the reason I reference only myself in the post is because I raised DS alone, his father isn't in the picture.

Can you really not see the sheer stupidity of your own post here?

You've taken the bad behaviour - the males - against the victim - the females - and twisted it in your own head to insult the female?!? Internalised misogyny and handmaidens are a big part of societies current problems.

So most women are shit mothers then?

Ime, there are very very few of these. In fact I don't think I've met even one. The problem is that there's two parents, or an absent one and the message there (which the mother can do nothing about) is do what you like boys, females will pick up the pieces.

But that’s neither here nor there really, is it? Men have developed a world where women are treated as sex objects; some women accept that. It’s hard to fight against the prevailing tide all the time.

Some posters on here (eg @Hateam ) are so defensive about their decision not to fight. They are eager to frame the problem as women being too militant. It’s sort of missing the point.

It’s undeniable that men have created a patriarchal world in which they get to shit all over women if they want. Many men take up that opportunity. It’s hard to fight against because it’s absolutely entrenched over centuries.

What some feminists (myself included) object to is women pretending it’s not like that. If an OP starts a thread essentially saying ‘men are great; stop objecting to their historical and global oppression of you, you meanies’, feminists are going to object to that and robustly defend their belief that, actually, men as a class get away with murder. Literally.

It’s so unhelpful to say ‘yes but it’s not all men’ because we obviously know this. It’s beside the point. Many of us are married to men.

It’s also pointless to try to start a fight by saying ‘oh but you’d judge me if I took my husband’s name’. Yes, the general feminist position is that giving up your name is a nod to the patriarchy. But it’s such small fry. Guess what - I took my husband’s name when I got married 20 years ago! Some feminists might get frustrated by women not trying harder to fight, but I’d say most are very understanding that a) it’s hard and it’s not always clear how to operate in this rising tide of misogyny and b) women aren’t the root problem!

Men are the ones who murder and assault but only women, but other men. Men are the ones responsible for the appalling conditions women are facing in Afghanistan. Men are the ones in positions of power who are starting wars. Men, in positions of power, are the ones dictating that women have less autonomy surrounding their own healthcare choices. Individual men might be ok (although having been raped at 19, in two abusive relationships, and experienced SA as a child, I'm a bit skeptics tbh), but there are still FAR too many men who think porn is ok, that women should know their place/feminism has gone too far/women can't drive/shouldn't do X job etc etc etc. My two sons are lovely but I have had to fight the constant onslaught of misogyny that surrounds them in order for them to realise women are not second class citizens because negative male influence is everywhere and it's pervasive.

Women post on here because they are experiencing or have experienced negativity at the hands of men, and they are seeking or giving advice from that viewpoint.

MN is not real life but it IS representative of the experiences of a lot of women. There are, I'm sure, many genuinely good, kind, caring men out there who view women as equals but I'd say I've only met a few who I genuinely think fit that description - maybe I've just been really unlucky though.

Another throw away sound bite to discredit feminism and to try to get women to ally with you against each other.
I have no problem with disagreement from any source. If anyone wants to provide reliable data to show there is false information on MN about the extent and severity of male harmful behaviour, I'm interested.
Yet as usual, posters have provided long lists of things that concern them, and I've not seen a word of rebuttal. All I see is scoffing and insults. Never "I disagree with your comment because I don't believe 80 men raped a single woman..." Always "I disagree with YOU because you have said something about men that offends me, so therefore you're a bitter man hater who (sneer) must have been left by a man" (ie theres something wrong with you because if you were a better woman, men would have treated you well and you wouldn't hate them)
I'm all for debate and different perspectives but if all that's all thats on offer, well its not going to change anyone's minds any time soon.

I wasn’t being sarcastic.

But you’re wrong here. Men do have more power to change the behaviour of other men, absolutely. Many men are borderline. They will be influenced by either the robust censure or the silent acceptance of their peers when, say, they talk in a disgusting way about women or treat their partner poorly or go to a strip club. This is how attitudes are formed, reinforced and how they escalate to worse behaviour. Men definitely react to the approval or reproach of other men.

My husband (their dad) is wonderful. They have two loving and engaged grandfathers and several uncles who are great with them and fun to be around.

It’s more that I am teaching them to be careful. They don’t walk around alone (my eldest is 10 and a lot of her classmates are out and about in our town already. I don’t allow this yet). But it’s not really about right now, because they are young enough and it is easy. But I am very aware that I can’t keep them with me forever and the idea of them being out in pubs/clubs etc, or being with abusive men, is genuinely terrifying to me.

I have no wish or need to explain away the surveys. I have no wish or need to minimise the appalling rape culture that exists. In our rage about it, we should arm ourselves with every ounce of the dreadful truth that we can.

Which is why I think it's important to tell our story accurately. Because it's quite grim enough without any need to exaggerate it.