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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Wondering if I'm always unpopular because I'm autistic?

138 replies

remembranceday212 · 14/11/2024 17:21

A couple of people said they thought I was autistic recently which was a total shocker.

Having looked into it a bit it does kind of make sense. I'm not going to pursue a diagnosis because frankly it's no one else's business.

I've done well at school, Uni and work, so it hasn't held me back as such.

But the bit I'm not coping with is just not fitting in with any group, and not 'getting it'.

I just never get what people are talking about in groups- and need things explained to me really clearly before I get it. By which point the conversation has died or completely moved on.

Just feeling sorry for myself really. Just feel really lonely, and would love to be included. I come across as really friendly, but after a short while people move away from me.

OP posts:
DesertGecko · 15/11/2024 10:49

Secradonugh · 15/11/2024 10:38

It's completely dependent on the people around you. If say you are 50 or older, had to move around multiple schools because they just thought you were difficult, had no one explain to you why you found it difficult until you were in your 30s and could only seek advice from then onwards, then that's completely different from a child with autism who is allowed to be in mainstream schools and interact properly with other kids. Age is a huge factor because society wasn't helpful. The challenge of autism / ADD and ADHD isn't the people who have it, it's been society learning better to integrate.

This is very true. The younger generation are raised in a society that better understands and accepts neurodivergence. It’s a far different experience in that way for them, thankfully. I think people of my generation and older grew up with intense social anxiety / bullying and end up a bit misanthropic/suspicious of others. Masking is tiresome and gets old after a while, but many people don’t feel ‘safe’ to be ourselves around. Well anyways that’s my viewpoint.

Guyforkz · 15/11/2024 11:00

I’m the same OP. Pretty sure I’m autistic, with an embarrassing special interest in why people do things and their thought processes and feelings. I mask this so hard in public though. NT seem to think less about these things and just understand what’s going on.
I’ve never really fitted in so I totally understand how much it hurts.

Lazydaisy991 · 15/11/2024 11:05

I'm 45 and pretty sure I'm autistic. My mum actually said it a few years ago, said there wasn't the awareness there is now when I was younger but looking back and reading up on it I realise I probably am. I don't really have any friends, have my dh and kids one of which has adhd. I can be very to the point with people, I can't dress up what I'm trying to say and people often don't like how direct I am. I suspect this is why I have a lack of friends. I just find people hard work.

BertieBotts · 15/11/2024 11:05

eightIsNewNine · 15/11/2024 10:36

I'm sometimes wondering whether the NTs really share the code (as much as they think) or whether they think/pretend they understand each other, but if their interpretation of the clues got verified they would be way off quite often.

My theory is that ND people see seeking precise understanding as a part of mutual respect, while NT see value in a smooth flow even when they don't understand a word.

They definitely don't, as seen in most of AIBU.

Just look at any collection of threads on a given day - a huge proportion of them will be people reading hidden meaning into something that somebody else has done or said, and then all the responses argue about what the hidden meaning was, usually most agree that there must BE a meaning, which is fascinating.

It's a really good point about precision being valuable and therefore a sign of respect. I think you're right about this and I hadn't really thought about it before.

@PyreneanAubrie this sounds similar to an ADHD profile where there is overlap between both. I can follow NT communication, though I miss a lot of subtext and may only pick it up later, but I get enough subtext that it works 90% of the time, and as eight pointed out, approximate communication works with NT communication so this is normally fine. I definitely don't struggle with communication (in a NT world) as much as most people who are diagnosed autistic tend to.

I find autistic communication tends to make sense to me too, though I might get occasionally frustrated when someone fixates on a small detail or is overly pedantic about terminology. Not because I think it isn't important, because often I totally agree that it is, but sometimes because I can fall into the trap of thinking someone is being obtuse or just simply being a bit impatient and wishing they would get on with it Blush I find autistic thinking is sometimes a bit black and white and can sort of draw a border around an issue where the person seems to want to pretend that the issue never interacts with anything else whereas I feel more like everything is connected, and it's the connections and interactions and contradictions which are fascinating to me.

DesertGecko · 15/11/2024 11:07

PyreneanAubrie · 15/11/2024 10:45

@BertieBotts
Thank you, this is fascinating in many ways and I hope it's okay if I save it for my own reference (I promise I will not quote you anywhere).

I definitely do the waffling on/long answers. But the reason one of our GP's thinks I'm chronic anxiety not ND, is my use of humour. I do self-deprecating, black humour, sarcasm, irony. Americans never ever get my humour, they take it literally; as you point out here. I learned this on Ravelry when a US mod banned me (and a felow European poster) for a joke about a cat 🙄 I also make eye contact, and in conversation I do ask about someone's kid, dog, ailment. So I'm not quite typical although possessing many autism traits. I do empathy but I think it's a myth that ND people don't... I think, as you say, it just gets lost in translation, as it were.

This humour thing is bollocks…we’re not androids. I know a lot of funny autists. Their humour may be different (dry / dark / offbeat etc). Eye contact you can learn to do as a social norm although I don’t love it and don’t always know how long to hold it for. And yes I can ask reciprocal questions about other people because I have learned to make small talk…although I hate small talk.

loveydoveyloon · 15/11/2024 11:12

AutisticHouseMove · 14/11/2024 18:08

I had years of people asking me if I'd considered I might be autistic before I was diagnosed. I didn't really know anything about it the first time it happened.

I won't pretend some of those weren't being dicks but most of them were well meaning.

I very rarely tell anyone.

But, yes, I have come to the conclusion that it is largely why I am unpopular.

How do you go about a diagnosis? How did you approach it with your GP?

I had an appointment I was going to go and speak to them but cancelled because I don't want to walk into the GP and tell her i think I may have ADHD or autism - or both and she just laughs at me or dismisses it.

(I did online tests with my son who definitely has ADHD and I scored higher on both tests - would explain why I never keep friends, never fit in, have always felt 'odd' compared to everyone else)

WasThatACorner · 15/11/2024 11:13

OP, have you considered looking at techniques that other people are using to cope with the particular areas where you are struggling?

You don't have to have a diagnosis to be able to identify areas you would like to work on and do some research online to see how other people manage those same issues.

There are people on Instagram etc who do little communication videos that my wife (who is autistic) finds really helpful. Little things like that might help you to 'get' what other people are talking about.

I would also say, open yourself up to friendships with people who have a similar communication style to you or are different but enjoy yours. Maybe the people you are trying to click with just don't fit for you?

Jellycats4life · 15/11/2024 11:13

I think it’s a bit simplistic and disrespectful of people with autism to imply they don’t have friends, and it’s autism to blame.

I think it’s short sighted and offensive to not only dismiss one of the fundamental aspects of autism (social-communication issues) AND the lived experience of people in this thread, all because you see your young son having friends.

Autism isn’t necessarily a death sentence for friendships and relationships but, in my experience, it’s one thing to maintain friendships when you are together all day every day at school/college, than it is out in the world as an adult.

PyreneanAubrie · 15/11/2024 11:14

DesertGecko · 15/11/2024 10:29

Ohhh ok thank you, my English is very mixed up from being raised in a few different countries even though I was born in England 🥴 I’m also small so similar comments, people are not very original! Actually when I say people it’s always men. I actually always wanted one of those dogs, but I thought maybe they’re too big for me…and then we ended up with the world’s largest Labrador anyways. A lady in the park once let me hug hers, like a big white fluffy cuddly soft toy 🥰 (I didn’t pester her to hug her dog she offered of her own accord 😅) Hugging stranger’s dogs in the park, now who sounds batshit?!

Men, yes, always men have to say something to a woman with a massive dog. I wonder if it threatens their masculinity in some way? I've had men say "that dog's too big for you" but also been told "that's a man's dog" by macho type builders. It was sometimes almost a flirtatious banter in my younger days, and I'd retort back something sarcastic about men having poodles or toy breeds, but I don't say much now I'm an old hag.

It's not so much the size that's the issue with Pyrenean dogs, it's the fact that it's a guarding breed, so they're very independent and stubborn which makes them hard to train, and their recall is non existent 😨 They have a loud bark and they shed fluff constantly, so not an easy dog for most people to live with. But they are lovely and people do like to cuddle them, it's not really batshit if the owner says it's okay 😊

FancyRedRobin · 15/11/2024 11:20

My husband recently received a diagnosis of ASD, just after our child.
He tastes this book "looking after your autistic self"

dancinfeet · 15/11/2024 11:21

hi OP- I could have written your post I feel exactly the same way. I have lots of acquaintances through work but only one actual friend and I also find it hard to join in group conversations, I seem to be a conversation stopper rather than a conversation starter. In secondary school I was bullied because I didn’t know how to fit in to any social group- one group of girls would make a joke of one day talking to me and being super friendly and the next day turning their backs and telling me to go away. I spent every single morning of secondary school wondering if anyone would speak to me that day or if I would commit some mysterious faux pas that would mean that everyone would shun me.
As an adult I have learned to avoid social situations, it’s easier to say I don’t like pubs and decline invites rather than suffer the excruciating embarrassment of being invited along but then ignored in the corner all evening, and any attempts to join in group conversations shut down. It’s easier to convince myself that I don’t like other people than it is to face their rejection after a sincere attempt at friendship. I hear you, it’s a lonely place to be.

Tarantella6 · 15/11/2024 11:26

eightIsNewNine · 15/11/2024 10:36

I'm sometimes wondering whether the NTs really share the code (as much as they think) or whether they think/pretend they understand each other, but if their interpretation of the clues got verified they would be way off quite often.

My theory is that ND people see seeking precise understanding as a part of mutual respect, while NT see value in a smooth flow even when they don't understand a word.

I agree with this. I don't think I'm autistic but dh would disagree 😁 but yes I absolutely value a smooth interaction with no awkwardness far more than understanding every nuance the other person is trying to communicate. This could be because I'm not generally super interested in what they think anyway.

If someone is giving me an instruction I will check and double check I have understood correctly. But the rest of the time who cares what they think 😅

PyreneanAubrie · 15/11/2024 11:31

Interesting about ADHD @BertieBotts I'd need to read up on it.

@DesertGecko We sound very similar with the humour/eye contact/empathy.

Benmac · 15/11/2024 11:47

This is me. High functioning, genius level IQ etc. not a clue how to deal with people. I was tested and it did make sense of why I am the way I am. I am lucky because my husband and family know I just don't get things but the rest of the world see me as aloof and uncaring.

JustinThyme · 15/11/2024 11:48

@Jellycats4life
because you see your young son having friends

My son is in his 30s, he isn’t a child, and his diagnosis was made as an adult. He is in neither school nor college. He has maintained friendships out in the world as an adult.

Lavenderblossoms · 15/11/2024 11:53

I understand you don't want to persue a diagnosis. That's your choice. I mean it could help to explore yourself a bit more but I understand it not changing much.

What would I would say as an ND person, maybe you're trying to find the wrong group of people? Maybe you'd find you would fit in better with other ND people. Maybe look for friendships in special interests or ND only groups. Just to see if that works perhaps?

Good luck to you op.

TheWayTheLightFalls · 15/11/2024 12:16

BertieBotts · 15/11/2024 10:18

Just saying with this one - there is enough overlap between ADHD and ASD and I do think this is a familiar experience for ADHDers.

I have both, lucky me Grin. Thank you though. Tbh I normally feel better for it - when I went on ADHD meds I felt “more autistic”, like I had lost a major coping mechanism suddenly.

dontcryformeargentina · 15/11/2024 14:03

I think, friendship is more about how you make other people feel in your company, about two way street reciprocation and less about if you are neurodiverse or neurotypical.

coco241 · 15/11/2024 14:29

I find it really difficult to interact with many people with autism for extended periods of time. However, it's really not them, it's me.

I have ADHD, so I think differently. And I'm already exhausted trying to think like an NT person to get by in life - I simply can't manage to 'speak' three different languages at once.

A lot of my friends have ADHD (I didn't seek them out consciously because of their ADHD) and we have conversations that many NT people would hate. We are constantly talking about 30 different things, flitting back and forth between subjects and never finishing any one discussion there and then.

With my NT friends, I have spent my life pretending to be them, so it's instinctive to keep up with how they communicate and to adapt accordingly.

I think you can draw a little possible friendship Venn diagram with ADHD and autism in circles that don't touch, and NT right in the middle.

With people with autism, while I'm sure they also find it hard to keep up with normal conventions, again, I bet many of them have spent their lives trying to be NT (to varying degrees of success). So, in all cases, whatever type of neurodivergence, it's just easier communicating with NT people rather than different ND people.

The trouble is, the rigidity of autism clashes with my ADHD chaos. Often someone with autism will want to meet at a certain time, and if you can't make that time, you don't like them enough. Someone with ADHD will promise to make that time and mean it, but inevitably fail. We live and thrive in chaos.

(It does make me laugh every time someone on MN posts a thread about people being late and not respecting them as I do wonder how much undiagnosed neurodiversity is there...)

But just because it can be hard for people with different types of ND to be friends doesn't mean it's impossible, and it's really not a reflection on either of them. It just means that it's easier to seek out more NT friends who can adapt better to our respective quirks. We just have different needs, and we're trying really hard to survive in an NT world in our different ways.

Autumnal589 · 15/11/2024 14:33

People are very rude to say that to you. That would really upset me.
I have a feeling I might be but am finding it hard to accept. I worry that people can see it in me and would be hurt if they mentioned it. Unless you are specifically asking them then I think they are out of line.

crackofdoom · 15/11/2024 15:14

coco241 · 15/11/2024 14:29

I find it really difficult to interact with many people with autism for extended periods of time. However, it's really not them, it's me.

I have ADHD, so I think differently. And I'm already exhausted trying to think like an NT person to get by in life - I simply can't manage to 'speak' three different languages at once.

A lot of my friends have ADHD (I didn't seek them out consciously because of their ADHD) and we have conversations that many NT people would hate. We are constantly talking about 30 different things, flitting back and forth between subjects and never finishing any one discussion there and then.

With my NT friends, I have spent my life pretending to be them, so it's instinctive to keep up with how they communicate and to adapt accordingly.

I think you can draw a little possible friendship Venn diagram with ADHD and autism in circles that don't touch, and NT right in the middle.

With people with autism, while I'm sure they also find it hard to keep up with normal conventions, again, I bet many of them have spent their lives trying to be NT (to varying degrees of success). So, in all cases, whatever type of neurodivergence, it's just easier communicating with NT people rather than different ND people.

The trouble is, the rigidity of autism clashes with my ADHD chaos. Often someone with autism will want to meet at a certain time, and if you can't make that time, you don't like them enough. Someone with ADHD will promise to make that time and mean it, but inevitably fail. We live and thrive in chaos.

(It does make me laugh every time someone on MN posts a thread about people being late and not respecting them as I do wonder how much undiagnosed neurodiversity is there...)

But just because it can be hard for people with different types of ND to be friends doesn't mean it's impossible, and it's really not a reflection on either of them. It just means that it's easier to seek out more NT friends who can adapt better to our respective quirks. We just have different needs, and we're trying really hard to survive in an NT world in our different ways.

My experience is different, in that I'm autistic and have a lot of ADHD and autistic friends. I think what we have in common is some really creative, out of the box thinking, and the potential to find all manner of stuff fascinating. There can also be a lot of sensory seeking behaviour in common- an enthusiasm for loud music, for example. Also, I'm quite alternative, and alternative subcultures are crammed with ND people.

There's also the possibility that there's far more crossover than previously thought: at a meet up of autistic friends, 5 out of 6 of us thought we may have some ADHD traits, and one had diagnoses of both. Personally I wonder if, in a generation's time, ASD and ADHD will be viewed as different manifestations of the same condition!

However, there can be friction: definitely in the past, I've been driven mad by people's flakiness (but now I'm perimenopausal I'm suddenly flaky myself 😬). And there was the time I went to a festival with an ADHD friend and wanted to leave early because it was all too much, which personally offended her (RSD? 🤔) and caused her to rage at me, meaning we're not friends any more.

remembranceday212 · 15/11/2024 15:24

junebirthdaygirl · 15/11/2024 04:44

I have a friend who has autism. We met as our dhs are long term friends. Knowing she has autism really helps me accept little things l would otherwise find a bit strange. Eg.: when we meet l will ask how her children are..what is Tom up to? Has your gc started school . Usual stuff. She will enthusiastically fill me in. Then silence! She never asks me how my guys are doing, where they are etc. I know now this is part of autism so just accept it but if l didn't know it would turn me off. She is an amazingly gifted person artistically and intelligence wise and l notice she is quite involved in groups surrounding those things. Even her holidays entail a group activity. Her dh is happy to oblige.
For me Knowing is everything.

Ahh this is the exact opposite problem that I've got at work. I spend ages asking about colleagues' children etc, they answer my questions- then silence. They have never ever followed up and asked me anything about my children.

I can't massively blame my colleagues for being awful- as it's been the same experience at all of my jobs over the years.

Maybe I'm pitching the whole conversation all wrong.

OP posts:
remembranceday212 · 15/11/2024 15:25

Thank you everyone so much for your replies. Everything you say resonates so much with me - so thank you.

OP posts:
crackofdoom · 15/11/2024 15:29

remembranceday212 · 15/11/2024 15:24

Ahh this is the exact opposite problem that I've got at work. I spend ages asking about colleagues' children etc, they answer my questions- then silence. They have never ever followed up and asked me anything about my children.

I can't massively blame my colleagues for being awful- as it's been the same experience at all of my jobs over the years.

Maybe I'm pitching the whole conversation all wrong.

Maybe they're just not really interested in children? 😆 I must admit I'm a bit like this- other mums ask me about the DC, and in return I ask them about their jobs or car troubles, because child chat bores me senseless (rest assured, I'll never be starting a thread on here about why I have no mum friends- I know very well why!! 😆)

But do your colleagues reciprocate by asking you about the important stuff in life, like what your favourite A road or dinosaur is?! 😆

remembranceday212 · 15/11/2024 15:30

AspirationalTallskinnylatte · 15/11/2024 07:39

Do you have any special interests? I suspect DS is mildly autistic and he is one of the top humans I know. He takes a while with friends but finding a group who are into stuff he likes (specific board games, computer games and a particular sport) really helps with friends.
I'm sorry you feel unpopular with your current groups, that can be so hard.

I feel I have made good friends over the years, but no longer see those friends much. And in a group setting they would always be kind and understanding to me- even if I didn't fit in I was still their friends.

I do need some friends, I'm reluctant to change jobs just to find my people- as I found it quite hard to get this job, as when you get older it's harder.

Also wondering if the menopause is knocking any of my 'masking' off track.

OP posts:
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