"chest feeding" men should not be put above women and babies by La Leche League. Reasonable?

[GenerativeAIBot]

How many women will self exclude based on this outcome? How many children will suffer because of it? Anything more than zero is unacceptable

This is the direct and foreseeable outcome of ever allowing the word woman to be mutable. This is the ultimate outcome of all these progressive policies, generally well meaning, with terrible outcomes

https://archive.ph/NsquC

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/breastfeeding-charity-chief-quits-over-transgender-policy-zhvhl8nps

Identity politics should be dead and we need to bury it.

@BalletCat can you explain what you think all 'cis' women and all 'trans' women have in common that would merit them being grouped together, that no man shares?

Ive asked this question many times and received no answer

Is it lady feelings?

I mean why would you come on this thread, which is about LLL supporting males 'breastfeeding' to bang on about the fact that YOU think we should all be happy to be called 'cis women'?

Don't you have an opinion about the subject of the thread?

Don't forget that 'cis' women include males with particular differences of sex development who have been incorrectly registered as female at birth who have chosen for their own motivations to not change that registration.

Male people such as two male boxers who punched female people in the face in the Olympics. Both of those male people have been constantly described by their supporters as 'cis women'.

Discussions like this often get heated but we'd like to remind you that Mumsnet is here to make parents' lives easier. While we encourage healthy and robust discussion, we hope that everyone can respect each other in their choices and express their views without resorting to personal attacks.
Peace and love!

I see my post where I directly quoted balletcat has been deleted. I might ask that if I remove the quote, if they will reinstate the post.

Bloody hell. They aren't my terms! They are widely known terms that are part of our language!

I don't agree with the concept of trans women breast feeding, but I don't believe that trans women gatecrashing LLL meetings is a real issue. Has it even happened or are they just saying it's allowed on their website? Saying we accept trans women and them actually turning up are two different scenarios. I would imagine it's is vanishingly rare for a trans woman to attempt breast feeding and even rarer for them to attend a LLL meeting.

I think it is ridiculous that trans issues are frothed over so frequently here because in the real world it has never been an issue I or anyone I know have ever encountered, because there's so few of them it's not the societal wide issue people make it out to be here. However I don't think people should be stopped from talking about it all day every day if they want to. I have no intention of silencing people @Helleofabore I just think the language used when talking about trans people on MN is disgusting and bigotry really isn't the morale high ground.

Talk about it all you like, just use respectful language if you want to claim to be morally superior to trans people. They are still people and being transgender is not a crime.

Why shouldn't trans women breastfeed?

Isn't that utterly transphobic?

🙄

Well, isn't it?

Go on, follow your sentence through to the logical end.

WHY is it wrong for transwomen to breastfeed if it isn't because they are men?
BTW Rolling eyes emojis don't excuse your poor answer.

Get off your high horse.

Good people don't accuse strangers of supporting child abuse for no reason.

It is not phobic to disagree with what someone is doing.

It is phobic to talk about someone in derogatory terms because of their differences.

It's really not a hard distinction to make. You're being deliberately obtuse to make some sort of point.

Nothing screams privilege more than ‘it’s just not an issue for me and the people I know’. It IS an issue for other poor fucking women hence why so many are getting angry and ‘frothing’ about it.

Lucky you haven’t been locked up with a man in prison (Isla Bryson, a male) and sexually assaulted in prison (Karen White, a male) by man who says he’s a woman, not having the option of being in or being able to request single SEX rape crisis sessions without being called a bigot (Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, mumsnetter Sarah to name a couple), not having your sporting place/medals taken by a man (Google is your friend). A woman was told she couldn’t possible have been raped on a hospital ward as there were no men there. There was, they ‘identified’ as a woman.

That’s a tiny amount of examples of what is going on. The whole concept of safeguarding being dismantled before our eyes in the name of ‘inclusivity’ and ‘be kind’. How many of these situations is acceptable for it to become a ‘problem’? It’s zero in my eyes .

But because YOU don’t see how being able to just say you’re a woman when you’re really a man might lead to the baddest of actors taking advantage of this thus leading to disastrous consequences, then it’s not a problem?

Yeah you just go back to worrying about women not accepting the word ‘CIS’, let us do the heavy lifting 🙄.

"I don't agree with the concept of trans women breast feeding, but I don't believe that trans women gatecrashing LLL meetings is a real issue. Has it even happened or are they just saying it's allowed on their website? Saying we accept trans women and them actually turning up are two different scenarios. I would imagine it's is vanishingly rare for a trans woman to attempt breast feeding and even rarer for them to attend a LLL meeting."

I have read testimonies from breastfeeding instructors and leaders in the past where they have confirmed that male people who are transgender are indeed gatecrashing. Even during covid when it was just on zoom.

And we also know there is a growing number of male people who are receiving the treatment to enable them to secrete a substance from their nipples. So why is it inconceivable that they will be attending LLL sessions?

"I would imagine it's is vanishingly rare for a trans woman to attempt breast feeding and even rarer for them to attend a LLL meeting."

Would you like to tell us just how many infants should be subjected to this behaviour before women and LLL founders can discuss it without being shamed by others?

How many infants would you find acceptable before male people should again be excluded from female only breastfeeding sessions? 1? well, we already know that we have passed that number in the UK. 5? We know that there have been at least 9 in Queensland Australia alone. So, would 15 be ok for you before women don't have to be shamed for discussing it using any fucking language they feel is appropriate?

Do you have a number in mind balletcat? Or will you now continue with the dismissive language of "I would imagine it's is vanishingly rare for a trans woman to attempt breast feeding and even rarer for them to attend a LLL meeting"?

Good people don't call women bigots for referring to men as men 🙄

What's derogatory about calling a man a man? It's not a bad thing to be a man 🫠

You are on a thread about LLL supporting males who identify as trans women to 'breastfeed'.

On that thread you are lecturing women trying to convince us to use a word that we find misogynistic and harmful because it fits your belief system.

It is quite logical for people to assume that your presence & message to women on this thread means that you support what LLL is doing, that is promoting males to feed babies secretions. Many people believe that males who do this are abusing the babies because they are doing it to act out a fetish without considering the needs of the infants.

If you don't support that I still don't understand why you are lecturing women on this thread.

The wants of a tiny group of selfish, mentally ill men trumps newly born defenceless little babies right to be kept alive by their Mothers. Fucking pricks. Why is anybody pandering to this utter shit?! This used to be a democracy, it’s starting to feel like a Transocracy.

Where have I done this? Please show me.

You keep accusing me of things I have not done.

"I think it is ridiculous that trans issues are frothed over so frequently here because in the real world it has never been an issue I or anyone I know have ever encountered, because there's so few of them it's not the societal wide issue people make it out to be here. However I don't think people should be stopped from talking about it all day every day if they want to. I have no intention of silencing people I just think the language used when talking about trans people on MN is disgusting and bigotry really isn't the morale high ground."

I see. Here is some more of that dismissive language - 'frothing'.

So, you personally haven't had an issue, and no one you know has had an issue that they have told you, so therefore, it is fine for you to dismiss others. Well, I have personally encountered abuse by a male that declared they have a transgender identity. I know others who have had situations of abuse, including sexual abuse, by others who are male with transgender identities.

Why do you dismiss my and others experience?

"I just think the language used when talking about trans people on MN is disgusting and bigotry really isn't the morale high ground."

Right... yes... got it. You don't agree with the language so you will continue to shame others who don't agree with you. Including people who point out the significant issues associated with the categorisation of people as 'cis' .

And do you think you have the moral high ground?

so what do you think is bigoted about posters behaviour on this thread?

So you can't find it. Funny that!

Stop accusing me of things that aren't true. It's deeply unpleasant behaviour.

You have called people 'disgusting and bigoted' on this thread.

So what precisely prompted that? What are you referring to?