"chest feeding" men should not be put above women and babies by La Leche League. Reasonable?

[GenerativeAIBot]

How many women will self exclude based on this outcome? How many children will suffer because of it? Anything more than zero is unacceptable

This is the direct and foreseeable outcome of ever allowing the word woman to be mutable. This is the ultimate outcome of all these progressive policies, generally well meaning, with terrible outcomes

https://archive.ph/NsquC

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/breastfeeding-charity-chief-quits-over-transgender-policy-zhvhl8nps

Identity politics should be dead and we need to bury it.

I would self-exclude based on this shite:

"Her letter, sent to LLL leaders, added: “This shift from following the norms of nature, which is the core of mothering through breastfeeding, to indulging the fantasies of adults, is destroying our organisation.”

The inclusion of male people in LLL groups are the very opposite of centring female people who need the surface.

It is incredible to think that La Leche ever thought this was a good idea.

And no male human should be feeding the secretions of their breasts to infants. Because not one study has proven that this substance is free from the interactions of the medication they need to produce the substance and from any other medication they are taking.

There are perverts everywhere and fetishes and kinks are now becoming mainstream. They are driving women away and taking up valuable resources.

Yes, it’s nonsense and I wouldn’t want to be involved with this organisation. 🙄

It's particularly awful given the low breastfeeding rates. It's something that is really hard for many mothers and this is just one more barrier to something which should be made easier.

A once-respected charity has probably destroyed its future. Surely very few, if any, women will now look to LLL for support and potentially hundreds of babies may not benefit from breastfeeding. I think of myself as progressive but now am now using the kind of language I associate with the supremely intolerant - absurd, madness, outrageous. Even the headline makes me angry - biological men shouldn't ever have been let anywhere near this or any breast-feeding support charity.

I'm appalled to hear this! Wokeness gone mad!

I don't think these policies with their awkward language and their deliberate obfuscation of sex are primarily about biological males wanting to pretend to breastfeed. They are about biological females actually breastfeeding but identifying as men and wanting to pretend they don't have breasts (hence "chestfeeding"). (Yes, I did read the article!)

No males should be in breast feeding groups but especially not ones who are looking to chest feed chemical excretions as part of their fetish.

La Leche have lost their minds on this. It's child abuse.

I had assumed it was this

I am generally very inclusive and trans-positive but I find "chest-feeding" a step too far.

How many trans men will actually be using this service? It must be an absolutely tiny number. Seems silly to change all language to accommodate such a tiny minority

I think it must be incredibly hard bearing a child as a trans man, and probably extremely distressing. I'd imagine going to a class that called it "breastfeeding" would be the least of their worries

I fail to understand why a female who is so desperate to be called a male, would choose to become pregnant - the most female of female things. And even if they did become pregnant, why they would choose to breast feed.

Mmm don't be so sure....

https://llli.org/breastfeeding-info/transgender-non-binary-parents/

From that page

Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol. You can read more here and here. A number of different protocols are described here. Our article about Breastfeeding Without Giving Birth may also be useful. Transfeminine nursing parents may also need to take the hormone spironolactone to suppress their testosterone. Read a case report of induced lactation in a transgender woman here.

Fucking grim!
If I ever saw a man who thinks he’s a woman trying to make a baby suck his nipples, my safeguarding head would scream NO at him and take that baby from him.
Absolute perversion!

It is a good question. But equally why would a male person who wishes to be seen as a woman want to be distinguished from other women by being labelled as a "chestfeeder"? The term exists to accommodate trans men with gender dysphoria.

I've read the anecdotal evidence and some of the science behind this and my conclusion is that it is disingenuous, to say the least. The quantities produced are tiny. The composition and safety up for debate. It is not enough to feed a baby, so exists merely as gender affirmation for the sperm donating parent (?) and little more. Imagine growing up to be told you had been suckling on, well, I probably best not elaborate.

Then I suggest you don't read the linked report:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5779241/

The poor child is all I'd say.

Just because something can be done it doesn't mean it should be done.

This is 100% about validating the male in the scenario.

Grim, it is nothing to do with the child's interests.

LLL have lost their minds in advocating for this.

It's harmful to the women who need a single sex space and it's harmful to babies.

Anyone who is ok with this is a pervert.

I think the bigger question is: Why are people going along with this shit?

If the majority said no to a tiny minority there isn't much the minority could do. Let them set up their own fetish groups.

People are deliberately colluding with perverts in a mass delusion.

These are people assigned female at birth who identify as male but still have the equipment to produce milk, so who cares?

Are you under the misinformed impression that this is for biological men to pretend to feed babies from nipples and that’s why you’re in such a state?

It's not misinformed it's on their website.
https://llli.org/breastfeeding-info/transgender-non-binary-parents/

Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol. You can read more here and here. A number of different protocols are described here. Our article about Breastfeeding Without Giving Birth may also be useful. Transfeminine nursing parents may also need to take the hormone spironolactone to suppress their testosterone. Read a case report of induced lactation in a transgender woman here.

She wouldn’t. If she’s transitioned to a woman, she would prefer the term breastfeeding more than likely. Chestfeeding is more for people who have transitioned to male but still have the ability to produce milk, even though they may have had a lot of breast tissue removed.

Even the ‘innocent’ scenario you propose here is a baby feeding off somebody who thinks they’re a man. Come on.

For those who are interested in the science, here is some more to read.

A transitioned male expert was the one who was putting up alerts about this, not the two people who carried out the treatment.

www.newscientist.com/article/2161151-transgender-woman-is-first-to-be-able-to-breastfeed-her-baby/#ixzz6f2Pil0Ik

However, the woman’s breastmilk has not been assessed yet, so we don’t know if it has the same mix of components as in milk from new gestational mothers. This means the practice cannot yet be recommended, says Madeline Deutsch at the University of California, San Francisco. She says she can see the potential benefits of breastfeeding, but that the long-term impact of this milk on the baby – including on subtle measures like IQ – is unknown.

Deutsch herself is a transgender woman with a six-month-old baby who is currently being breastfed by Deutsch’s wife, who was the gestational mother. “I am very sad not to be able to breastfeed her and at the same time I did not consider doing this for the above reasons,” she says.

This was February 2018. I have not seen anything to prove that any in-depth studies have been released since to counter this expert's opinion. And there has been plenty of other threads since this that where these studies would have been posted by activist posters.

So, there we have it. A transitioned male, Associate Professor, Family Community Medicine, is telling the world that this is not advisable until further research.

And this is key too:

After three months of treatment, this increased to 227 grams of breast milk per day. Once the baby was born, she was able to exclusively breastfeed the infant for six weeks – during which time a paediatrician confirmed the baby was growing and developing normally and healthily.

Although significant, this is below the average of around 500 grams that a baby consumes by the time the it is 5 days old. After six weeks, the woman supplemented her breastfeeding with formula.

So.... for how many weeks did this infant receive half the nutrition it needed? This male only supplemented the feeding regime at SIX WEEKS!!!

And this was supposed to be monitored surely. It was an experiment. Why was this allowed!

From the New Scientist article.

What comes out of male nipples is not milk, it is pus.

Some chemicals might make the pus more copious.

My heart breaks to think of babies who are forced, presumably from starvation, to root for it. I also worry about the mothers who are coerced to hand over their babies for such abuse