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A baby red panda at Edinburgh zoo choked on her own vomit in terror at the fireworks last week

265 replies

OptimismvsRealism · 13/11/2024 23:06

Aibu to think the time has come to ban this bullshit?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Ytcsghisn · 14/11/2024 06:50

Oh so OP is actually peddling fake news.

Way to go.

No panda died because of fireworks.

Superhansrantowindsor · 14/11/2024 06:50

It never used to happen. Why?
I'm all for limiting sales and also perhaps looking at making them smaller but this didn’t happen before.
I’d also say the panda shouldn’t be in a zoo.

Itsmostlygristlecathy · 14/11/2024 06:51

No on the other threads if you mentioned this you just got ‘shut up hur dur I like the bang bang’

Lovebirdshatecats · 14/11/2024 06:52

Ostagazuzulum · 14/11/2024 01:24

@ThisJoyousFatball

Your hostility throughout this thread just makes me feel sad.

I've no doubt someone at some point will refer to you as a troll and maybe report you. The topic pertains to the death of an living creature due to something that gives less than 30 mins of fun. Not really justifiable in any way. As previous posters rightly pointed out. It has a wider impact on children and adults with neurodiversity and veterans. Some people are just scared. It's fine to have an opposing opinion but there's no need to be so goading and dismissive. Your comments are not only ignorant but it's coming across like you're enjoying provoking people.

Your responses very much present like you have incredibly low emotional intelligence. Not everyone will be an animal lover. But I imagine the majority of those people still wouldn't be comfortable with an animal being distressed. Fireworks are proven to distress lots of animals, often causing a fatal reaction. Are you really ok with that? I'm struggling with that.

I'm not going to judge you as there's always a chance your hostility is not opinion based, but a reflection of your own issues and you're using an anonymous forum to lash out and provoke people as a way to release tension or detract yourself from your own reality. Maybe it's to seek attention, maybe you have mental health issues. Or maybe you're just responding like this to get a reaction to either alleviate boredom or get a response to combat loneliness. Who knows. Maybe it's none of those things and you're just a bad person. I don't know. We can only but wonder and I suppose it's irrelevant but I would honestly urge you to think about what you've said.

I appreciate I don't know your background or what you've been through. But I will tell you my background. I don't usually discuss this element of my life but since this is anonymous I'm hopeful it might make you more considerate. I don't want sympathy, I just would like to try and make you understand.

I'm ex military. It was obviously my choice to join the military and expose myself to certain conditions and I wouldn't change that part of my life for anything. I enjoyed it. I served in 8 tours inc conflict. I returned home from a tour of Iraq in october 2024. During that tour I was shot at, lived with rpg's flying over my head, dealt with colleagues being killed, had first hand experience of IEDs and saw things I wouldn't want others to see. It may sound dramatic to you but it's quite simply fact and quickly became the norm for a lot of us. On the surface, it didn't really bother me. At the time it was a job, it fuelled adrenaline, I was young, and blasé I just cracked on. I was a lucky one who didn't get MH issues from what I saw and have a strong resilience. If anything I was a bit dead on inside and very much thought I was last person who'd have an issue.

a few weeks after my tour ended and I got back to England it was bonfire night. I was excited to be home and catch up with everyone and I've always loved a good firework (not bothered about bangs but I do very much enjoy the colours and lights and atmosphere).

After over half a year being exposed to rpgs / gunfire/ and ieds in Iraq, it become a regular part of life, I didn't understand that my normal for so long was to be on high alert. I thought I'd get back to the uk and life would go back to normal as usual after like any other tour (I'd been on tours before inc Kosovo war so not my first ball game!)

That firework night was horrific. The first bang made me drop to the floor. I was constantly on edge despite logically knowing I was safe. I thought I'd lost my mind and was embarrassed. I could write reems of how I felt that night, the lack of control, the fear. The argument in my brain that it's a fireworks night and it's fun, and the other side telling me I was under attack.

That night couldn't be over quick enough for me. I didn't tell the people I was with. I was mortified. They laughed about me dropping to the floor initially and my oddness that night was overlooked. Afterwards I dismissed it as I'd just got back to uk so just muscle memory. I wasn't bothered by what happened on tour so took it to be a one off. But it's stayed with me.

I have a DD now who unfortunately for me loves fireworks. I force myself to go for her sake but it is a mental challenge as sometimes I'm fine, just a bit jumpy, sometimes not so fine. I fight through it. Largely because I'm still embarrassed to admit they bother me and bring back memories I don't want to either remember or deal with. I had counselling and I'm generally ok, other things can trigger it but those incidents are few and far between. Fireworks night is an obvious one and at some point during fireworks and new year I know I'm going to have to deal with it.

I'm not weak person. Alot of people who know me would be very surprised by this. I keep my struggles quiet, largely because of people like you. Someone rightly pointed out that fireworks affect veterans. Your response was "Load of old cobblers". "There may be a few Johnny Rambos out there going loco in the jungle when they hear a bang"

You and your ignorance are the reason why so many veterans struggle in silence. The fear of judgment and ridicule from people like you. You might be a veteran yourself or be related to one (I doubt it) i don't know. If you are though, the military family would be extremely ashamed of you.

If you think those WW2 veterans at the remembrance parade on Sunday gone didn't have combat fatigue and at some point didn't need the silence and didn't jump at loud bangs then that's just further evidence of your ignorance.

I joined the emergency services when I left the military. Working Fireworks night if part of the job but it takes a considerable amount of mental willpower and strength to constantly tell myself it's a firework and it's ok. Being at work on fireworks night is actually easier than being at home as working keeps my head busy and detracts me from The bangs and prevent memories being provoked. I'm not loco as you so nicely say, it's a small part of me now that i accept and manage. I'd rather not have to but hey ho.

Sadly my role now means I've seen injuries from fireworks, I've had them fired at me and although theyre pretty. They are dangerous and damaging.

I would love to see fireworks banned from sale to private buyers, silent fireworks only, and only to be used an properly organised licensed events.

And for what it's worth I really love all animals and wouldn't want to see any suffer. I'd rather you missed out of the fun of hearing a loud bang than see a horse petrified in a nearby field or a dog quivering under a table.

I'm resigned to fact that you'll likely respond to this with sarcasm, belittling and dismissive comments. I'm ok with that as it says more about you than me.

Please don't at any point (if you even bother to read this) think you've upset or affected me. You haven't. I'm numb to people like you now. I wanted to reply though in hope of making you think and hopefully stop you affecting others who might either hear or read your ignorant attitude towards veterans who aren't quite as accepting of interpersonally challenged people like yourself. I'm not optimistic based on your previous response to posters very fair and justified opinions but one can but try.

I'm sorry that you have to cope with this.

I love fireworks to look at but I think silent ones are the way forward. Licenced displays of them too.

Itsmostlygristlecathy · 14/11/2024 06:53

Superhansrantowindsor · 14/11/2024 06:50

It never used to happen. Why?
I'm all for limiting sales and also perhaps looking at making them smaller but this didn’t happen before.
I’d also say the panda shouldn’t be in a zoo.

What’s not happened before?

Because you don’t know animals are affected by massive bangs then it doesn’t exist?

Jifmicroliquid · 14/11/2024 06:53

Areolaborealis · 14/11/2024 06:43

Have you been?

I am a visitor to Chester Zoo regularly. They do a lot for conservation and the habitats are a different world from the zoos of yester year.
Ive not been to Edinburgh zoo though.

Twiglets1 · 14/11/2024 06:54

Fireworks should only be sold for big public displays not for individuals to purchase and let off at random times.

And silent fireworks are a good idea I think, for the sake of animals and others who may be scared of the noise.

Tiredmomma86 · 14/11/2024 06:56

Hate fireworks violently. Ban them or else make them so they don’t make so much noise. I bet most people are unaware of the whole point of bonfire night anyway. Also don’t understand how people can afford them either ?

romdowa · 14/11/2024 07:02

I've never understood why countries allow any tom , dick or Harry to purchase fireworks. I live in Ireland and they are only available for licensed professionals to buy and set off, we all seem to manage perfectly fine. You get the odd idiot who has gone north and brings them down but it's not common where I am due to being so far south. When I lived in England I found this time of year quite frightening , people leaving fireworks off right outside people's doors in narrow streets 😑 I'm honestly surprised more people aren't killed or injured.

ExMachina · 14/11/2024 07:02

Ostagazuzulum · 14/11/2024 02:38

@Rachel757677

  1. you've just agreed it's plausible in your reply "Plausible it may be" so plausible means it can't be bullshit.

  2. can you say for certain it isn't a fact. Zoos have vets. What if vet said that was reason for death? Are we going to dispute a highly skilled professional? The article does actually say that veterinary experts made that statement. It's not a claim made by a random passer by is it? Confused

  3. it cannot be disputed that the noise of fireworks is traumatic for a considerable amount of animals. Are you ok with that? Presume not as you seems sympathetic to its death.

  4. "To use it's death to promote an anti firework agenda is grasping at straws in the extreme". Or if we look at it from a different angle, fact is animals suffer with fireworks. Can't argue with that. A decent human won't want to see an animal suffer. Also can't argue with that.
    For many years it's been highlighted what fireworks do to dogs and other animals but regardless we're still in position where fireworks are well regulated to reduce impact on our furry friends.

At no point would any sensible person think that that little baby red panda was sat in its enclosure looking up at the sky marvelling at the nice colours and clapping its little paws at the big bangs having a right good night. On the balance of probabilities, that poor animal was probably petrified at the noise it didn't understand. If there is any chance that the extreme fear caused the poor thing to vomit and then it choked on its vomit (which as YOU say is perfectly plausible) then if it's death raises awareness, grabs people's attention and encourages more people to support any action to be stricter with firework laws and regulations (which is ultimately also safer for the public as reduces risk of injury and therefore also likely reduces impact on nhs over bonfire night) then you know what, I think it's justified to highlight this in a media campaign.

  1. are you insinuating that the majority of people on hear are not Sensible People" because they believe this? Very speculative.

What isn't speculative is saying that people who think this is nonsense or ok are small minded and not thinking in the wider context and potentially lack compassion for animals.

The problem with this argument is that "decent" people allow animals suffer all the time. They participate in;

  • Eating them to wearing clothes made out of their skin
  • Buying products that have been tested on animals
- Living in houses that were built over former animal habitats
  • Driving on roads also built over former animal habitats
  • Simply existing makes animals suffer due to our carbon footprint and all the destruction humans cause to the world

I get the argument but I think we make it harder for people to change their minds when we belittle them for their choices and exercise moral superiority.

People aren't divided into "good" and "bad" camps, things are never that black and white.

Having said that, while I don't particularly care either way about fireworks as I'm not impacted by them in any specific way, I do understand why it may be best to only have them in organised events. It's just better to explain why calmly to people rather than throwing insults from both sides of the argument to be fair

localnotail · 14/11/2024 07:08

I dont think they should be banned. They are fun, life is miserable as it is.

Aren't Red Pandas from China? they are massive on fireworks there.

Edited: might have been a bit insensitive. I do like animals but no animal should be kept in a zoo unless a former pet rescue/ rewilding program.

MolkosTeenageAngst · 14/11/2024 07:18

Animals shouldn’t be in zoos, if they were in their natural Himalayan habitat I don’t think firework night should be an issue. This is a failing of the zookeeping staff, it’s hardly a surprise that there will be fireworks around bonfire night and the zoo should be taking steps to shield the animals from hearing them if the distress is such that it can cause an animal to die.

KeenCat · 14/11/2024 07:27

I was driving my son home from nursery in the dark last November when someone threw a lit firework into the road. It was terrifying.

I think they should be banned from sale to the general public.

Trobealone · 14/11/2024 07:27

@OptimismvsRealism
I think there are many, many ways that humans cause animals to suffer.

-confined/unnatural living conditions
-crop and food production (pet food production in itself causes huge global carbon footprint)
-night time lighting
-destroying habitats
-introducing foreign species
-pollution
-climate change

I’d argue that owning a dog causes more unintended harm than releasing a firework.

And I think humans are causing issues for red pandas in far greater ways than fireworks.

There are much bigger problems to be addressed, so if we moan about fireworks - are we also looking at the far greater issues of the problems we cause by owning a car/pet/food consumption/travel/mass consumerism.

Kool4katz · 14/11/2024 07:33

Superhansrantowindsor · 14/11/2024 06:50

It never used to happen. Why?
I'm all for limiting sales and also perhaps looking at making them smaller but this didn’t happen before.
I’d also say the panda shouldn’t be in a zoo.

Of course these things happened years ago. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Lots of children were badly burnt by fireworks and a friend of mine burnt her hand trying to pick one up that she assumed was safe.

We didn’t have social media back then so news was limited to what middle aged white journalists decided we should be told about. Fewer news columns were devoted to the harm caused to wildlife, that’s true. However, I can guarantee plenty of stories about fireworks burning children in the news around early November.

I’m in my 60’s and fireworks definitely caused the death of animals years ago. I still vividly remember the horror of a mangled corpse of a cat who had been burnt by a firework and left on the ground that I walked past on my way to primary school. I can still recall the awful image very clearly over 50 years later!

user8634216758 · 14/11/2024 07:38

Hate fireworks.
I’m surprised that in this day and age they are still offered for public sale. Round here they start at Halloween and carry on till new year.
Awful environmental impact and distress to wildlife.

Loved the drone display at last years NYE London celebration, thats the way forward!

Trobealone · 14/11/2024 07:39

The carbon footprint of a fireworks display is the equivalent of a car travelling about 25 miles.
A dog’s carbon footprint can up up to twice of a family car’s annual usage.

@OptimismvsRealism

Laalaalaand · 14/11/2024 07:42

How do they know it vomited and choked because of fireworks and not because it's an animal and animals vomit sometimes?

Being in a zoo is very distressing for some animals. Let's ban those.

Ostagazuzulum · 14/11/2024 07:43

@ExMachina

The 'argument' is nothing to do with animals suffer all ways. If we all got started on that it would be huge.

The thread is about the really specific problem of the use of fireworks and impact on animals. People generally making animals suffer is a way bigger broader topic.

The post you refer to is someone saying the news was bullshit. But it clearly isn't . There's no superiority. Just pointing out facts. I can promise you I'm not a perfect person by any means. But if I see something I think is inaccurate then of course I'll challenge it.

I really don't want this to come across as having a go at you. Its not at all. . It's just rationale regarding your response to what I said and I've a right to explain my pov.

But if someone says only sensible people agree with them (when its a subjective argument) that's pretty rude and belittling.

Having said that, while I don't particularly care either way about fireworks as I'm not impacted by them in any specific way, I do understand why it may be best to only have them in organised events. It's just better to explain why calmly to people rather than throwing insults from both sides of the argument to be fair

Trobealone · 14/11/2024 07:52

@Ostagazuzulum

I think it’s about perspective though. I’d say pets do more damage to the planet than fireworks.

I’m not a huge fan of either dogs or fireworks, but I think it’s about coming up with ways to make it better/safer.

Like you suggest - drones or I heard of a display doing just a laser show this year.

whatkatydid2014 · 14/11/2024 07:52

Honestly amazes me they are still available for public sale. All other considerations aside it just seems stupidly dangerous. I’d be all for a ban on fireworks outside of organised displays run by people who are licensed.

SoiledMyselfDuringSomeTurbulence · 14/11/2024 07:56

OptimismvsRealism · 13/11/2024 23:06

Aibu to think the time has come to ban this bullshit?

Zoos?

Trobealone · 14/11/2024 07:56

Red pandas have a far greater threat due to habitat loss. So owning pets undoubtedly causes more deaths to red pandas than fireworks.