Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Sara Sharif case - update - horrifying

1000 replies

amIloud · 13/11/2024 12:21

This case is just beyond the realms of horrifying,

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl461xwg3do

This poor child.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
34
Needanewname42 · 12/12/2024 23:57

How did the Pakistani police get him i missed that bit?

bluewanda · 13/12/2024 03:19

BlueAndViolet · 12/12/2024 08:18

From mail: Despite previous allegations of Sharif’s violence, a social worker made the fateful recommendation that Sara and U should move back in with him. And in October 2019, that decision was ratified when a judge at Guildford Family Court in Surrey agreed that Sara should live with her father and Batool, her new stepmother.

Who was the judge? Any potential bias? And who were the social workers closing the case? Heads must roll surely?

Sounds like they’ve closed ranks to protect themselves.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14188171/Veil-secrecy-Sara-Sharif-scandal-judge-bans-naming-colleague-gave-girl-killer-dad.html

Absolutely sickening.

Judge bans naming of colleague who Sara Sharif back to her killer dad

A High Court judge has ordered that none of the professionals involved in the family court decision to hand Sara Sharif back over to her murderous father can be named.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14188171/Veil-secrecy-Sara-Sharif-scandal-judge-bans-naming-colleague-gave-girl-killer-dad.html

bluewanda · 13/12/2024 03:55

The video of Sara singing and playing her guitar has me in tears. She genuinely saw a light amongst the darkness. Almost seemed like she was singing those lyrics to herself to reassure herself.

I was also in tears watching this. It is completely heartbreaking.

Manara · 13/12/2024 06:40

It wasn’t just Sara, child Z (who had the same mother as Sara) also reported their mother hitting them.

So this narrative that the mother was safe is wrong, she was also violent.

Sara should have been in foster care.

Manara · 13/12/2024 06:50

From the BBC:

In 2010, "Z" was found alone in a shop aged just three.

In 2011, "Z" told teachers "daddy hit me", and the following year told them "mummy hit me". The child was found with a burn mark and was again discovered alone in public, this time in Woking Town Centre - half a mile from the family home.

Then there was an incident in 2013, when "Z" was burned by an iron. When social workers visited their home, they found no light bulbs or bedding in the children's bedrooms.

She was first taken into foster care for a short period in November 2014, when she was almost two, after "Z" complained of being bitten "very hard" by Ms Domin and "pinched and punched" by Sharif.

Foster carers noticed what looked like cigarette burns on both Sara and "U". Ms Domin and Sharif said they were chicken pox scars.

Sara’s mother was also abusing the children.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgedlr7qg1o.amp

BlueAndViolet · 13/12/2024 08:09

Manara · 13/12/2024 06:50

From the BBC:

In 2010, "Z" was found alone in a shop aged just three.

In 2011, "Z" told teachers "daddy hit me", and the following year told them "mummy hit me". The child was found with a burn mark and was again discovered alone in public, this time in Woking Town Centre - half a mile from the family home.

Then there was an incident in 2013, when "Z" was burned by an iron. When social workers visited their home, they found no light bulbs or bedding in the children's bedrooms.

She was first taken into foster care for a short period in November 2014, when she was almost two, after "Z" complained of being bitten "very hard" by Ms Domin and "pinched and punched" by Sharif.

Foster carers noticed what looked like cigarette burns on both Sara and "U". Ms Domin and Sharif said they were chicken pox scars.

Sara’s mother was also abusing the children.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgedlr7qg1o.amp

WTH
What is wrong with people.
Such depravation. The bite mark from a female who wasn't the step mother was probably form her own biological mother. Urfan Sharif must have gravitated to other extremely depraved and disturbed people judging by the 2 women who chose to live with.

Sara should have been living with safe, capable and kind foster parents. The little we have seen of her, she was a lovely child with a beautiful smile that they didn't manage to beat out of her. I hope Sarah rests in peace.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 13/12/2024 08:13

Anonymousess · 12/12/2024 20:29

This article explains the events surrounding Z in more detail: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgedlr7qg1o.amp

Z is the child of both of Sara’s parents, a full sibling. It’s quite scary actually because Sara ended up dying to the exact same abuse Z suffered…bite marks, iron marks, cigarette burns.

However what is striking is that Z was taken into care, so presumably Sara’s mother wasn’t deemed fit enough to keep Z safe. Z also accused her of hitting them.

What is really sad, is that Z is old enough to stumble across media coverage of Sara’s murder. They’re around 17.

Edited

It says they didn't marry until 2009 yet this child Z was found wandering alone aged 3 in 2010. Are we sure they were full siblings? I'm sure Ive read elsewhere that they met and married fairly quickly, because he targeted her, an EU citizen, shortly before his visa was due to end, so it wouldn't make sense that they were together for several years and had a child long before marrying.

In other articles i got the impression that Z was probably 14 or so now, so maybe this article has the date wrong of when he was found outside alone? Something isn't adding up.

Turmerictolly · 13/12/2024 08:18

AnneShirleysNewDress · 12/12/2024 22:02

The judge should never be allowed to preside in family court, or any other court, again. Appalling.

Unfortunately the judge is very unlikely to be held to account. As in other cases, the (probably inexperienced) social worker and their manager will be sacked. Morale in the profession will sink even further and nothing will change. As previous posters have said, a whole systemic change is needed but how when no-one wants to do this role? A role where human error leads to loss of life. It's so depressing because there are literally no easy ways to resolve this.

By the way, thousands of children's lives are also saved by social workers.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 13/12/2024 08:19

Tandora · 12/12/2024 20:24

It might be fair to assume that she would still be alive if she's remained with her mother

might be fair ?

Yes. I might be fair to assume that. But as we don't have a crystal ball and can't prove what might or might not have happened either way in a hypothetical scenario, we can't possibly know.

What we DO know is that Sara's mother was also abusive, neglectful and physically violent. So had Sara stayed with her, anything could have happened, potentially. Hopefully not being beaten to death, but it seems pretty clear that there almost certainly would have been abuse of some sort.

ContactNightmare · 13/12/2024 08:35

The judge should be held to account for this decision. The ultimate decision making power rested with them, and what is concerning is not just what happened afterwards, but the perceived lack of inquiry by them into the wider risks of this man, by that point, well documented.

There looks to be a very naive undercurrent of “he had learned and turned over a new leaf” with a new partner. What scrutiny really was there of her I wonder? Abusive men often choose partners who have also been abused or are abusive.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 13/12/2024 08:46

Manara · 13/12/2024 06:40

It wasn’t just Sara, child Z (who had the same mother as Sara) also reported their mother hitting them.

So this narrative that the mother was safe is wrong, she was also violent.

Sara should have been in foster care.

Yes, she should. But as someone else pointed out upthread, that can cost anywhere upwards of 3k per week, to 10k per week, per child. Now we are getting to the crux of why it's easier to keep children with their fucking awful parents, aren't we? Money.

Someone else upthread said something along the lines of nothing will change until ordinary people start demanding that the government makes changes to stop this happening over and over. We all cry over it for a week or two, get angry, demand to know how it happened, then it's next week's chip paper and we move on with our comfortable lives until next time.

What can odrinary people do though? I know what most ordinary, decent, sensible people want. It's for children like Sara and her brother/s to be removed from their parents at the first available opportunity and never, ever given back.

Ordinary people want to see them to go to loving, adoptive families at the very first opportunity, not after several years of being passed around a broken care system until they themselves are damaged and dysfunctional and present a challenge to any foster or adoptive family that is brave enough to take them.

Ordinary people want to see forced sterilization of repeat offenders having numerous children they then neglect, abuse, or who get taken straight into the care system at birth for their own safety. Even the ones who get adopted are rarely adopted immediately because the feckless parents are given chance after chance to sort themselves out. So an endless stream of children are sentenced to suffer, because we don't have the guts to do the right thing in the very beginning.

Sara was on the radar of SS because both her parents were violent, abusive and incompetent before she was even born. She could have been removed at birth and adopted immediately, and be alive, happy and thriving today, but she's dead. Battered, broken and dead. Because the powers that be decide that they know better than the ordinary decent people of this country. the 'system' decides that every attempt should be made to keep children with their fucking awful dysfunctional parents because 'it's best.' Best for who? It wasn't best for Sara, or Arthur, for any of the Saras or Arthurs who have gone before them, was it?

It's only 'best' to try to keep children with their birth parents compared to being in the care system their whole lives. It's not better than being swiftly adopted by loving, non-chaotic, non-drug addicted, non-violent, non-dysfunctional parents who don't have very low IQs or serious MH issues or any other issues which will mean they are hopelessly incapable of providing a child with an adequate level of love and care and always will be. Even if they could change with enough support, how much time and money do we throw at one family, before we admit defeat and give up, by which time those children are already deeply damaged and institutionalised? And those very children are often the ones who go on to repear the same tragic patterns.

It's not that ordinary people don't care. It's that ordinary people don't get listened to because people in the civil service and government who like to think they are extra-ordinary insist on ignoring the ordinary people and making all the decisions for us, in spite of us. And any government that would do things the way most ordinary decent people would like to see them done would be considered too hard line and probably labelled 'far right.' That's the truth of it.

kerstina · 13/12/2024 08:53

I agree with this abusive parents should not be allowed to have any more children.
Also in defence of social workers how many lives are being saved and have been saved . We will never hear about that only about the ones that were not. Mistakes definitely were made in this case but let’s not forget who is truly evil here. Making a hood to muffle her screams. Absolutely horrific.

louddumpernoise · 13/12/2024 09:00

Tandora · 12/12/2024 14:49

I think you are missing the point which is why was the father seen as the better option than the mother?

He didn't have the history of abuse that the mother had? he conned the courts and the social workers? its the cheaper and often the only option?

You didn't sit through the court hearing.

louddumpernoise · 13/12/2024 09:04

kerstina · 13/12/2024 08:53

I agree with this abusive parents should not be allowed to have any more children.
Also in defence of social workers how many lives are being saved and have been saved . We will never hear about that only about the ones that were not. Mistakes definitely were made in this case but let’s not forget who is truly evil here. Making a hood to muffle her screams. Absolutely horrific.

My sister used to be a Special needs teacher, she is still firmly of the belief that many people should be sterilised.

But how can we sterilise people? who would make that judgement? and what if they got it wrong?

I agree that we only ever get to hear about the mistakes SW's make, never the good they do.

At the end of the day, the only people responsible for this girls terrible life and death is the adults supposedly there to look after her.

Anonymousess · 13/12/2024 09:19

TwigletsAndRadishes · 13/12/2024 08:13

It says they didn't marry until 2009 yet this child Z was found wandering alone aged 3 in 2010. Are we sure they were full siblings? I'm sure Ive read elsewhere that they met and married fairly quickly, because he targeted her, an EU citizen, shortly before his visa was due to end, so it wouldn't make sense that they were together for several years and had a child long before marrying.

In other articles i got the impression that Z was probably 14 or so now, so maybe this article has the date wrong of when he was found outside alone? Something isn't adding up.

Edited

I don’t know what articles you’re referencing. I did have a quick search but everything seems to match up to the BBC one I linked in. In that article it mentions:

In 2010, "Z" was found alone in a shop aged just three. Later that year Sharif was arrested for assaulting Ms Domin. During the fight he hit "Z", leaving a hand print on the child's back.
In 2011, "Z" told teachers "daddy hit me", and the following year told them "mummy hit me". The child was found with a burn mark and was again discovered alone in public, this time in Woking Town Centre - half a mile from the family home.

The Standard states: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/sara-sharif-surrey-police-surrey-county-council-woking-high-court-b1199699.html

The documents disclosed to the media show that Surrey County Council first had contact with Sharif and Sara’s mother, Olga Sharif, in 2010 – more than two years before Sara was born – having received “referrals indicative of neglect” relating to her two older siblings, known only as Z and U.

LBC states:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/sara-sharif-father-family-murder-mum-stepmum/

In 2010, "Z" was found alone in a shop at the age of just three.

The guardian etc are all similar too.

Anonymousess · 13/12/2024 09:29

@Needanewname42 Have a look at this

Really interesting police work on their part, our police wouldn’t have been able to do much of that!

Tandora · 13/12/2024 09:43

louddumpernoise · 13/12/2024 09:00

He didn't have the history of abuse that the mother had? he conned the courts and the social workers? its the cheaper and often the only option?

You didn't sit through the court hearing.

There was plenty of evidence that he had a history of domestic violence. The allegations made by Sara against her mother were solicited through her father. as far as I’m aware , there isn’t evidence that any significant allegations were made to others?

Where were the questions about parental alienation when it was the word of dad against mum?
Where was the verification of his story?
This man was an extremely violent abuser- he is a child murderer - with a long history of violence.
Why was it so easy for him to “con” the courts?

Why are you defending the decision of the court to place a child in his care?

This case is part of a pattern in the family courts these days , where allegations of domestic violence against men are not being taken seriously, and children and women and being put at risk in favour of prioritising men’s rights to have contact with their children. Why do you think this is an issue that does not need serious and immediate attention?

Manara · 13/12/2024 09:46

Tandora · 13/12/2024 09:43

There was plenty of evidence that he had a history of domestic violence. The allegations made by Sara against her mother were solicited through her father. as far as I’m aware , there isn’t evidence that any significant allegations were made to others?

Where were the questions about parental alienation when it was the word of dad against mum?
Where was the verification of his story?
This man was an extremely violent abuser- he is a child murderer - with a long history of violence.
Why was it so easy for him to “con” the courts?

Why are you defending the decision of the court to place a child in his care?

This case is part of a pattern in the family courts these days , where allegations of domestic violence against men are not being taken seriously, and children and women and being put at risk in favour of prioritising men’s rights to have contact with their children. Why do you think this is an issue that does not need serious and immediate attention?

There were other allegations against the mother, read the BBC article linked above about child Z.

She should have been removed from both parents.

Anonymousess · 13/12/2024 09:49

I agree with all of the recent posts here. I think this murder shows the cross-cutting impact of political decisions of recent decades.

Whilst I hope things get better, I don’t think any of the previous infamous child deaths triggered any major change, so I doubt this serious case review would either.

I don’t mean this in a horrible way, but I think there’s an undercurrent of society full of invisible children like Sara. Olga and Sharif had a shotgun marriage/kids for British residency, both barely speak English, neither had skilled employment, neither could appropriately provide for their children or even treat them decently. Frankly I was surprised Sara even had a guitar, as other articles stated her biological parents didn’t even give the children bedding. I have no doubt that the language barrier and cultural differences, made it easier for the neglect and abuse to be perpetrated.

louddumpernoise · 13/12/2024 09:50

Tandora · 13/12/2024 09:43

There was plenty of evidence that he had a history of domestic violence. The allegations made by Sara against her mother were solicited through her father. as far as I’m aware , there isn’t evidence that any significant allegations were made to others?

Where were the questions about parental alienation when it was the word of dad against mum?
Where was the verification of his story?
This man was an extremely violent abuser- he is a child murderer - with a long history of violence.
Why was it so easy for him to “con” the courts?

Why are you defending the decision of the court to place a child in his care?

This case is part of a pattern in the family courts these days , where allegations of domestic violence against men are not being taken seriously, and children and women and being put at risk in favour of prioritising men’s rights to have contact with their children. Why do you think this is an issue that does not need serious and immediate attention?

I'm not defending the actions of him at all, he should hang for what he has done.

You didn't sit through the court hearings & on DV and men, plenty of men beat up their wives/partners BUT do not beat up their children.

Our Governments cut funding for DV refuge's, cut funding for courts and cut funding for Social work, Police etc etc.

Thats on us, we vote for this, we voted for 14 years of Austerity, where was your outrage then?

When this dies down, we'll still vote for lower taxes.... and moan like fuck when a govt attempts to increase them.

Turmerictolly · 13/12/2024 09:56

.... and there'd be absolute uproar if the Govt were to suggest tax rises to pay for extra resources. This is the consequence and legacy of consistently under funded and under resourced services. Not enough experienced, well supported, social work staff or managers, not enough resources to deal with violent men (through courts or prison systems), housing totally broken so women with violent men can't leave etc

Anonymousess · 13/12/2024 09:58

@Tandora whilst I agree with your sentiments in theory, more information has been revealed about Olga recently that you need to take into account. Olga & Sharif had 3 kids - Z, U and Sara. You can’t ignore that Z made allegations against Olga abusing them too, which led to all 3 of Olga and Sharif’s children being placed in foster care. The decision was made for Z to permanently move into care as both parents were negligent.

It’s not as clear-cut as Sharif alienating people against Olga. Over the course of Sara’s entire life, both Sharif and Olga were asked to account for unexplained injuries to all their children and accusations of abuse were against both of them. I think the truth likely is Olga was a poor parent. I do think Sharif blamed his actions on her too, but Olga wasn’t a safe parent regardless.

BlueAndViolet · 13/12/2024 10:05

Turmerictolly · 13/12/2024 09:56

.... and there'd be absolute uproar if the Govt were to suggest tax rises to pay for extra resources. This is the consequence and legacy of consistently under funded and under resourced services. Not enough experienced, well supported, social work staff or managers, not enough resources to deal with violent men (through courts or prison systems), housing totally broken so women with violent men can't leave etc

Also sure start centres used to be able to pick this up very early and sometimes be able to provide support and turn things around for families. Not that these particular set of parents had a chance to reform their abusive selves but there may have been more support for the children.

Tandora · 13/12/2024 10:05

Anonymousess · 13/12/2024 09:58

@Tandora whilst I agree with your sentiments in theory, more information has been revealed about Olga recently that you need to take into account. Olga & Sharif had 3 kids - Z, U and Sara. You can’t ignore that Z made allegations against Olga abusing them too, which led to all 3 of Olga and Sharif’s children being placed in foster care. The decision was made for Z to permanently move into care as both parents were negligent.

It’s not as clear-cut as Sharif alienating people against Olga. Over the course of Sara’s entire life, both Sharif and Olga were asked to account for unexplained injuries to all their children and accusations of abuse were against both of them. I think the truth likely is Olga was a poor parent. I do think Sharif blamed his actions on her too, but Olga wasn’t a safe parent regardless.

But child z was also the child of/ living with sharif and he was clearly abusing both mum and child. I don’t think there’s enough evidence here to conclude as you are. I really think it’s shocking that people are still defending the court here.

The initial reaction to this case should be an absolute demand for accountability as to how this decision was made. No benefit of the doubt should be given. There should be very strong evidence that the mother was clearly at least as dangerous as dad (given the outcome I don’t believe for a second that this is the case/ will be found). Without this lessons need to be learned and learned now.

Tandora · 13/12/2024 10:07

louddumpernoise · 13/12/2024 09:50

I'm not defending the actions of him at all, he should hang for what he has done.

You didn't sit through the court hearings & on DV and men, plenty of men beat up their wives/partners BUT do not beat up their children.

Our Governments cut funding for DV refuge's, cut funding for courts and cut funding for Social work, Police etc etc.

Thats on us, we vote for this, we voted for 14 years of Austerity, where was your outrage then?

When this dies down, we'll still vote for lower taxes.... and moan like fuck when a govt attempts to increase them.

You didn't sit through the court hearings & on DV and men, plenty of men beat up their wives/partners BUT do not beat up their children

this is exactly the attitude of the courts and what enables this to continue. Allegations of DV against a woman should be taken as a serious red flag that a man is not safe around a child.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread