to think the 'Ask for Angela' pub safety scheme is inherently flawed?

[Sethera]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789nn3d918o

To be clear, I fully endorse the idea of a safety scheme, it's the methodology of this one I'm questioning.

The idea behind 'Ask for Angela' is that anyone feeling unsafe can discreetly ask for help in a pub, bar or similar - because saying 'is Angela in tonight' or similar sounds as though you are asking after a member of staff, and won't alert your date/companion to the fact you're seeking an escape route.

However, the effectiveness of the scheme depends on bar staff understanding this code, which, as the linked article suggests, more than half of them don't.

This suggests awareness of the code word needs to be increased - but, if it becomes so widely known that you can guarantee all bar staff will understand it, what is the point of having a code word at all? Bar staff are not a separate species; if it's universally recognisable to them, it's going to be universally recognisable to the people who are causing others to feel threatened enough to use it.

If the idea is that you get away from your threatening date to 'ask for Angela' at the bar, where you won't be overheard, why is there a need for a code at all? Why wouldn't people just ask for help?

It would be better to promote the idea that anyone can ask for help in a bar (or similar public place) and receive it - this would not then rely on other people understanding a code, or, indeed, the victim knowing there was a code they could use (if bar staff don't understand it then there's a high chance many victims won't know about it either).

Yes that was my concern as well.

It should be rolled across all pubs/restaurants/bars etc. So all waiting staff know what to do.

Yes the bad date might know what is going on, but at the same time, if you are standing at a bar and with a waiter/waitress looking on, they would be daft to do anything. Or as someone else has suggested, maybe a strip or a card that you could hand over silently. Although the staff would have be to extremely diligent in making sure that these didn't run out.

In pubs, the main value of the scheme is having staff primed to help anyone who asks without needing an explanation. The Angela code is easy and quick to say and perhaps attracts less unwelcome attention from other customers than ‘please help me get away I need to get away from that creep over there’ . But obviously it only works if all staff recognise it and if they do the perps will soon recognise it as well.

@gubbinsy

What is the alternative though? That women have no way to ask for help due to the minute chance that the bar staff will take advantage?

I spent a decade in hospitality and have several issues with the scheme.
Some being that a minimum wage, often young employee isn't responsible of rthe personal safety of others.
I don't like how they've placed this burden on people without thought.

Although BBC should have kept their gobs shut about this one. Now they've made it public knowledge.

It doesn't necessarily matter if a perpetrator does know about this, does it? They can hardly butt in and tell their companion that she doesn't want Angela. They might try to reassure her about her safety but if she's got that far, it's really too late.

That is a valid point; but (according to the article) a great deal of public money has been spent on promoting this scheme and the specific wording 'ask for Angela' - it's even included in licensing conditions in some pubs - yet the wording isn't being recognised, and the reason for that is that it's confusing - it bears no obvious relation to the meaning of needing help.

I think they need to move away from the idea of literally 'asking for Angela' and promote the idea of simply asking for help; alongside discreet but unambiguous methods of asking for help such as tear-off strips in the toilets as suggested by pp.

All the schemes have flaws, Ask for Ani, Ask for Angela, Ask for Sandy but they're all in place to do good so maybe instead of criticising them we should be looking at why we need them in the first place.

The easiest way is to tell a relative/friend where you’re going, and just go to the loo and text/phone them for some assistance if you feel unsafe.🙂

But if it isn't public knowledge, how can it work? People need to know about it in order to use it, and in order to respond to it.

That's the inherent flaw I am talking about. It's supposed to be a secret or at least, discreet code, yet to be effective, it relies on being universally understood.
Therefore, there is no point in having a code.

@Boomer55

Sadly, not everyone has a friend or relative to help them.

@Sethera

The only people who need to know about it are hospitality staff and women. And there are plenty of other ways of getting this information to it's target audience than national news where plenty of men will get to know about it as well

Name changed for this .

My name is Angela and I worked in pubs for many years, both big chains and small locals.
I agree with pp , while in principle the scheme is a good idea, it doesn't always work.
Despite staff training most staff would either come and find me or tell the lady asking that I wasn't working atm.
I have also worked in pubs where a certain drink I can be asked for to elicit help but either the person wanting help forgets the exact name of it or the barstaff don't understand.

In one incident a lady used the easy access toilet ( disabled ) and pulled the emergency cord so myself and another member of staff went to see if we could help ( thinking she had fallen/ hurt herself) after asking a few questions through the door she unlocked it and we were able to get her out unnoticed.
I have often wondered if a similar thing could be fitted to standard ladies toilets but unfortunately I think it would get either misused 'let's see what happens ' or mistaken for some kind of light switch .
But I think there is potential with the idea.

My son got barred from.a wetherspoon. Yes barred for no other reason than to help an " Angela " . He even walked her 2 bus stops away because she was in distress from a bad date and he saw her on the bus and went back to the pub.. only to be told be He shouldn't have got involved. The ' date ' was a boyfriend .that was dragging her by the hair. My son didn't know this was a boyfriend.
So Angela can go fend for herself in future.

Just remembered it was a coloured dot to stick on your notes, urine sample or desk/chair to alert the staff. A tear off strip would be better for a pub.

I think it works better in laces with smaller stable teams of staff and in smaller communities. I walked someone home a few months ago who was in a tricky situation, the bar manager had a word and asked if we would as she was across the street from us, it's pedestrianised by the pub!

It's totally unrealistic to hope for some sort of secret code which is universally understood by all women (and barstaff) and unknown to men.

Barred from a wetherspoons isn't the end of the world for goodness sake. Sure it's unfair but I'd rather be banned from a pub than leave a woman in distress, I wouldn't care!

I think it’s a hard one because it largely depends on the staff knowing about it & having training to know exactly what to do in that situation. I worked in 2 bars while at uni which were really good for this, it was part of the training to recognise and know the phrase and it was also part of training to know what you were supposed to do if it actually happened so staff felt confident with it.

I’ve recently had a baby and at every midwife appointment when I was asked to do a urine sample there was a poster on the back of the toilet door with a sheet of red dot stickers inside, poster said if you need help pop a red sticker on the bottom of your sample pot before you hand it back. A really good idea but not sure how that would work in a pub environment.

I don't disagree with at all with the principle of having a scheme specifically for women, but I am afraid the organisers of the 'Ask for Angela' scheme do - they've made it clear it's for 'anyone who feels unsafe':

While most of the approaches were made by a female researcher, in a couple of instances a male researcher made a request for help, as the scheme applies to anyone feeling unsafe.

Since many hospitality staff are male, it could never be a secret scheme just for women and hospitality staff - hospitality has a notoriously high turnover and proportion of temporary staff - any male who had worked in passing in hospitality would know about it.

How is that the woman's fault?

I agree. Just one thing to say rather than "Can you help me please?" and the person behind the bar having to ask how they can help.

What it does do perhaps, is encourage on empower women to ask for help at the bar. Not necessarily for ‘’Angela’ but knowing that staff are aware or willing or open to helping in some way.
When I was at uni there’s no way I would have asked the mainly male bar staff for help for feeling a bit uncomfortable, I would have felt a bit silly or worried that I wouldn’t be taken seriously.
This isn’t necessary about a woman feeling her life or safety is in peril IMMEDIATELY - it’s about those feelings you get in the run up to something happening, when your instincts kick in and you start feeling unsure or uncomfortable…