To be confused why DIL has suddenly changed in how she treats me

[helpamilout]

My son is in his mid-30s and has been with his wife for nearly a decade. They dated for 3-4 years before getting married. When they were dating, she was lovely—chatty, friendly and extremely polite, almost overly so, often saying things like, “Do you mind if I use your bathroom?” or “Thank you very much” for even small gestures.

After they got engaged, everything still seemed fine. But a couple of weeks before the wedding, they told us she was six weeks pregnant, and that’s when things began to change. She became more private and somewhat secretive about the pregnancy (which is of course her right—it was just very different from how she had been before). She was quieter in conversations and didn’t reach out to us as much as she used to. I don’t believe we did anything to cause this; we avoided giving unsolicited advice and tried to be supportive. The only thing I can think of is that I once mentioned C-sections having longer recovery times when she shared she was considering it, but that seems minor.

We also expressed that we were very excited to meet the baby, though we didn’t pressure them with specific timing. We ended up meeting our grandchild when they were one month old, while her mom met the baby in the hospital and her dad when the baby was just three days old. When she was pregnant with their second, they didn’t tell us until she was 20 weeks along, even though it seemed her close friends already knew.

They never ask us to babysit but often ask her parents. They visit her parents once a month, but they only come to see us once or twice a year, despite us living the same distance away (a couple of hours, though in the opposite direction). I do see them a bit more often because I go to visit them, but they never invite me to stay overnight, whereas her mom often stays with them.

It’s perhaps worth noting that my daughter-in-law is a stay-at-home mom, and my son works long hours, sometimes on weekends. While arranging visits should ideally be a joint effort, it often falls on her since my son can’t really insist on her seeing us when he isn’t around. My son does make an effort to plan visits with us when he’s off work, but when I do visit, she seems distant and disengaged. I’ve heard her mention that the drive to us is “far,” yet she drives the same distance to her parents regularly. During visits, she often seems uninterested and sometimes responds quite shortly. For instance, when I asked how long the baby typically naps, she just shrugged and said, “Depends.” And when I brought a homemade banana cake for everyone to share, she laughed and said he doesn’t like bananas anymore.

I’m confused what has caused this. I’ve asked my son but he says everything is fine. Should I ask her? If so, how? Can MNers see what I’ve made done wrong or help me guess?

Just reading through your replies and wondering if there is some sort of class divide ? Seems petty but people can be snobby 🤷🏼‍♀️

I bet she's overwhelmed with the mental load if your son is away that often amd she's got the kids.

This sounds like me and I recognise her behaviour. Here's what happened in our case.

Firstly its important to explain that i love MIL dearly. She's a wonderful woman and one of my personal heroes. I admire her and love spending time with her.

The complicated bit is my dh. He's possibly neurodivergent. He is very much a lover, he doesn't reach out to people, he doesn't care about contact or visits. He's super busy with work and has little energy even for us, let alone his wider family. He's also incredibly kind, thoughtful, romantic and loyal. Just very low social needs!

MIL is a little controlling. It's mostly an "allowable weakness" but dh is very resistant and aggravated by any attempts to control or manipulate him.

So. I find it 1,000 times harder to be honest and assertive with my MIL than I do with my own mum. It's a more courteous relationship on my part, and respectful. What happened was there were often times where I was bulldozed or bamboozled into agreeing to things I didn't want to - and more importantly dh didn't want to.

I realised I was becoming a "middle man" in MIL attempts to control dh.

All of this just got too much for me. It caused problems between me and dh. So in the end I tried to distance myself a bit. Not emotionally because I absolutely adore MIL. But in practical situations about arrangements etc.

When I reflect on it, it makes me sad that I had to do that. It's just that I'm too easily pushed around and manipulated and that ended up being taken advantage of. Probably without any malign intentions.

But it is possible that you going direct to DIL rather than DS is difficult for her in a similar way?

BTW it may be absolutely nothing of the sort, but I thought it was worth suggesting in case any of that resonates.

My DH sorts out his side of the family and I sort out mine. You sound like a lovely MIL who wants to be actively involved. Your DIL sounds like she has mental health issues. Very guarded, coercive and controlling and only seeks help from trusted sources, likes to keep herself in a comfy bubble where she is in the commanding position. Your DS probably doesn’t want her kicking off and appeases her every whim. She sounds vile. Red flag with regards to your DS not being able to do anything without her consent. I’d confront her and put it all out there. Can’t get any worse.

It could definitely get worse - OP could see her DGC less!

IMO there's no point confronting. The DIL isn't warm, and probably nothing OP can do will change that, for the moment.

At least she sees the DGC once a month, not once or twice a year like many.

Devils advocate a little bit. I absolutely hate being pressured and it makes me withdraw and close down. This is entirely a personality thing and I try to stay aware of this tendency

Your focus on analysing the whole thing would absolutely make me shut down. If I say my house is too full, I expect that to be accepted and respected. Picking it apart - you have x number of rooms, you let so & so do it, would make me want less and less contact. Ive noticed you do this with her various explanations. Analysing them, deciding whether they are valid.

For someone like me, that’s a huge amount of pressure and I would withdraw. It’s a personality thing for me. I am not saying you are in the wrong, just that people have different ways of dealing with things

you may find relaxing and giving some space is more likely to bring you closer. I think that could against your instincts.

it feels like a personality difference

I've got 3 other children - 2 daughters and DS's twin brother.
DD1 has a child and lives close to DS and DIL - her and DIL seem to get on well, go on play dates as the children are close-ish in age. I think they are only "friends" when it concerns the children though, in that they happily arrange activities to do together with the children but wouldn't go out for a dinner as just the two women. I've spoken to DD1 about this but she doesn't know what the issue is and it's not like she can ask directly "why do you hate my mum?" Or "do you think my mum is annoying?" as DIL knows I'm close to DD1.
DD2 doesn't have children, she also doesn't live quite as locally but she will be in town for work relatively frequently and pop in for an evening to play with the GC when she can (only when DS is around) or meet DS for lunch as she works close to his office when she comes into town. Her relationship with DIL is quite distant but cordial. She wouldn't know why DIL is being like this.
DS2 is DS's best mate, he visits relatively frequently or they sometimes do a Sunday lunch together as 2 families. They've gone on holiday together before too as the 2 couples. I'd say he gets on with DIL but perhaps partly because I'm pretty sure that DS would absolutely not tolerate it if DIL (or anyone) ever said a bad word towards his twin or was rude or otherwise suggested they should become less close. I've spoken to DS2 about this and he's just said that DIL can be quite cold , and between his girlfriends she would either absolutely love them and try to be best friends or be frosty and he'd never really know why. I get on quite well with DS2's wife but , again , I don't feel like I can start gossiping with one DIL about another and speculating what DIL2 thinks is wrong with DIL1.

It’s the problem associated with having boys. I have two and one daughter. The daughter includes us in everything and asks advice, visits all the time and includes us with the grandchildren.
Unless you are lucky enough to have a “whole family” type of daughter in law you’re screwed. Both my son’s partners tend to think that I’ve never known what it’s like to have children, the love you feel for them and hurt you feel when they hurt. They forget that I gave birth too and felt every emotion for my sons that they feel now feel for their children. My one grandchild I’ve never been allowed to hold, kiss or cuddle. Never had a day out or sleepover with them. It really hurts not to be involved in their lives. I’d settle for anything to be honest. By the way, yes they are local, five minutes away in fact. Gifts have to be cleared first, I can’t just go and buy something; if she dosnt like it she throws, gives away or sells. Should I wish to visit it has to be agreed by her but usually there’s an event she can’t miss or child is getting ready for bed at a certain time and therefore it isn’t convenient.
The lads have no say, i wish they’d grow a pair and both fight for their relationships with their parents. Not all mother in laws are controlling, nasty or spiteful they just love their boys! Some people just never learn to share - but I loved them before they did 🫶🏼

Answered just above about the other kids but yes they're close to each other and to us (their parents). I also get on well with all the other partners.
No one seems to know what's going on and why though

No, I raised my children in their home town, 3 moved to various parts of London and 1 lives closer to us.
I guess we could move but we'd always assumed we'd grow old where we're from, we know the area, London wouldn't feel like home.

I definitely think something is up OP but not sure how you tackle it. I had a really good relationship with my MIL but I found that changed when I was pregnant. I had to tfmr at 16 weeks and MIL just seemed to say the wrong thing, and I distanced myself from her and others. When I got pregnant a year later we only told my mum and told DH family at 20 weeks. I was still quite distant because I had been suffering with depression and diagnosed with an autoimmune disease in pregnancy which impacted me and our baby. It was a stressful time and I found the dynamic between myself and MIL changed and the relationship seemed to deteriorate once my son was born.

I'm a SAHM and my DH works away alot. When he's away I either go and stay with my mum or she stays with me. Naturally I will always gravitate towards my mum over MIL because I feel most comfortable with her, and can speak freely and not feel like I have a guest in my home, and she helps me. When MIL visits she treats it like a holiday. She expects to be waited on hand and foot, can't cook, won't go anywhere alone, nit picks at our parenting/life choices/appearances and it creates alot of tension. My DH would never tell her this.
So now I leave it to my DH to organise visits but he's quite disorganised and tends to only arrange visits because he feels guilty.
I'm not saying this is the same for you because you sound lovely, and thoughtful. But I suspect there is some sort of underlying niggle there.

@Pinkyandperkyofyesteryear this made me cry... it's so true. Oh and I completely recognise the "gifts have to be cleared" - I got a bubble machine once and got a stern look from DIL who then told me she was planning to get them one for Christmas. It was March. Any gift I give she looks at very closely, asks a million question (is this cotton? 100% cotton? Where did you buy it? When did you buy it?) and often puts away when GC reaches for it "I'll give it to you later"

Apologies if I’m misreading but it does seem like you are painting her in a much more negative light than your son.

It does seem as if you have upset them maybe without even realising it.

Your strongest relationship is with your son though and if he claims nothing is wrong it can only either be the truth or a lie. If it’s a lie but he doesn’t want to talk to you about it then that is a fundamental issue with your relationship with him and not her.

Its totally normal for a first time Mother to want to see her own parents more though, especially if she is struggling and you trying to force equal time might well make the issue much worse as she will feel both pressured and judged. Visits become a chore and not a pleasure.

I haven't complained to him about the frequency, because I feel like that's his / their choice and on his part, there isn't a huge amount he can do except what he's already doing because he's working the other times. I also don't want to occupy all their weekends. I've said things like "I'd love to babysit, do you want me to want DGC when you and [DIL] go for a meal next week? I'm in town anyway" or asked if he knows why DIL is being frosty.

Also someone else commented that I compare and question her explanations. I don't question them aloud to her or to DS. It's just that some things are obvious - like when someone says there's no space and you see 2 empty rooms. I wouldn't insist or say anything but... it definitely pops up as a thought

Absolutely agree with this. There hasn’t been a note of acceptance or empathy or understanding.

It seems exhausting to be constantly arguing and justifying. I’d be the same as you or would make me set harder boundaries each time I felt mine were overstepped.

You seem genuinely keen to understand where the issues might be - so I’ll give you a few comments from my perspective and a daughter / daughter in law where neither set of grandparents are local and with a husband who works a lot.

As a starter - reading through this thread, every response of yours has slightly raised my anxiety levels. It’s likely that you have that effect on your daughter in law. And no one enjoys feelings anxious or pressured. And when you do feel anxious, you get snippy, you don’t chat, and you come across as slightly rude.

You’ve clocked the comment you made about c sections. I’m confident you’ll have made plenty more without even realising it. You’ll also say plenty of things that you don’t mean as digs, but will land as such to someone who’s not relaxed in themselves. Eg. Asking about normal nap times - you think innocuous. Someone who’s feeling on edge will hear it as a judgement on their approach to parenting and nap arrangements. You didn’t mean it like that, but that’s how it can land.

Sounds like your son is a pretty remote parent as a result of the hours he works. That means that all the parenting choices type stuff will be falling on your daughter. That’s mentally draining. Cleaning is a doddle. You roll your sleeves up and do it. Am I feeding / watering / resting this chile right, am I getting their development right, are they healthy - that’s the mentally draining stuff and it’s tough doing that solo but alongside another parent who in theory is there but just isn’t actually available to carry that stuff with you very often.

Your own parents are a really known quantity. You don’t have to be polite to them. You know when you’ll be judged and not, so can navigate it. You’ve experienced their parenting. They’ve seen you on your grotty days you entire life. Your in laws aren’t the same. They’re in a similar bracket to your boss.

On the journey front - you seem fixated that it’s the same amount of time in the car. That doesn’t mean it’s a comparable journey. I used to drive to Edinburgh airport twice a week. It was 2.5hrs in the car, but it’s a journey I did lots and I knew the route well. No brain power needed. I was staying somewhere I was very familiar with when I got there. That’s a totally different journey to 2 hours somewhere that I don’t know well. One is tiring and going into something that needs spark from me. One is relaxing and to a familiar set up.

My in laws are lovely, but being at my parents is easier for me. I’m also not going to be proactive around arranging trips if my husband isn’t (until the gap gets out of hand). I’ve got enough else to think about.

To me, you’re also missing the point on babysitting. Babysitting young children in something that’s not a straight up emergency doesn’t just need a trusted adult. You want someone who you know is familiar with the child, the child is familiar with them, the routines, likes / dislikes/ comfort routes etc are known. It doesn’t sound like you actually spend enough time with them to fall into that category. So your offers aren’t actually help, they’re just more pressure.

On what changed - they had children. She became a parent, rather than a girlfriend. She got other people in her life who come first. Her life also got harder. Probably not in an entirely planned way given the timeline you gave.

Its not the whole plot - but there’s a batch of mums that Covid really screwed up.

I wish you the best, and as a start - I’d stop keeping track of contacts and point scoring between grandparents. There’s several relationships here. A daughter with her parents. Maternal grandparents with their grandchildren. A son in law with his wife’s parents.

then a marriage and parenting.

Then a son and his parents. Paternal grandparents with their grandchildren and a daughter in law with her husbands parents.

It’s not all about that last one.

Once you’ve stopped comparing, work on ideas to see more of your son and his family if that’s what you’re looking for. Be the ones who do the travelling. Talk about whether you could stay on later / arrive earlier even if he’s working. Offer social visits so she can start to get some confidence that you and the children understand each other, before jumping in with yet another offer of babysitting that just feels like piling on the pressure.

Wish you the best.

I found your post interesting, but not illuminating.
Why exactly do you find her so difficult?

I hope she isn’t on Mumsnet and recognises herself ☹️ or worse, the DM publishes it!

I am sorry that this has happened to you and you have my sympathies. I am also in a very similar situation to you with my brother and it's really difficult and caused me a lot of sadness. I have tried to let it go now but it's still quite painful.

This is so sad. I’d have to have it out with her, I couldn’t leave it alone. Sounds like she thinks she’s better than you. Speak to your son. I really feel for you xx

@Mymanyellow in fairness, when it comes to gifts DS does step in. With the bubble machine incident he just said that they'll get DC something else for Xmas and for now... shall we go outside and make some bubbles in the park?? As DGC was very excited to try it out.

So he does notice it then. He knows what’s up speak to him.

That’s exactly how I’d respond too. Now that I am a little older and understand this is how I respond to things, I even directly say something along the lines of - I feel really pressured by this and it’s going to make me set harder boundaries. When I was younger, I probably wouldn’t have been so direct and people may have wondered why I was backing off.

Also OP - it also crossed my mind this could be the reason for the one word responses. You ask what time the baby naps and you get a vague answer and short answers. Do specific and detailed answer later get used in the analysis? Would you later say - but i thought you says the baby naps at x time…so why can’t you do x, y, z? If the answer to that is yes, then vague answers are safer.

Perhaps she's thinking the same? That you have changed. However the problem here is your son and how he is handling this and also how he must feel like the go between.

I think it sounds like DIL could have gone grey rock with you.

The only way to know for sure is to ask your son.

Is their relationship in trouble? I stopped making any effort with my MIL once the marriage was over. I just wanted distance and couldn't act normal.