To be confused why DIL has suddenly changed in how she treats me

[helpamilout]

My son is in his mid-30s and has been with his wife for nearly a decade. They dated for 3-4 years before getting married. When they were dating, she was lovely—chatty, friendly and extremely polite, almost overly so, often saying things like, “Do you mind if I use your bathroom?” or “Thank you very much” for even small gestures.

After they got engaged, everything still seemed fine. But a couple of weeks before the wedding, they told us she was six weeks pregnant, and that’s when things began to change. She became more private and somewhat secretive about the pregnancy (which is of course her right—it was just very different from how she had been before). She was quieter in conversations and didn’t reach out to us as much as she used to. I don’t believe we did anything to cause this; we avoided giving unsolicited advice and tried to be supportive. The only thing I can think of is that I once mentioned C-sections having longer recovery times when she shared she was considering it, but that seems minor.

We also expressed that we were very excited to meet the baby, though we didn’t pressure them with specific timing. We ended up meeting our grandchild when they were one month old, while her mom met the baby in the hospital and her dad when the baby was just three days old. When she was pregnant with their second, they didn’t tell us until she was 20 weeks along, even though it seemed her close friends already knew.

They never ask us to babysit but often ask her parents. They visit her parents once a month, but they only come to see us once or twice a year, despite us living the same distance away (a couple of hours, though in the opposite direction). I do see them a bit more often because I go to visit them, but they never invite me to stay overnight, whereas her mom often stays with them.

It’s perhaps worth noting that my daughter-in-law is a stay-at-home mom, and my son works long hours, sometimes on weekends. While arranging visits should ideally be a joint effort, it often falls on her since my son can’t really insist on her seeing us when he isn’t around. My son does make an effort to plan visits with us when he’s off work, but when I do visit, she seems distant and disengaged. I’ve heard her mention that the drive to us is “far,” yet she drives the same distance to her parents regularly. During visits, she often seems uninterested and sometimes responds quite shortly. For instance, when I asked how long the baby typically naps, she just shrugged and said, “Depends.” And when I brought a homemade banana cake for everyone to share, she laughed and said he doesn’t like bananas anymore.

I’m confused what has caused this. I’ve asked my son but he says everything is fine. Should I ask her? If so, how? Can MNers see what I’ve made done wrong or help me guess?

I think you're being unreasonable to expect your DIL to want to spend the same amount of time with you as she does with her own parents.

I do think you are in a difficult position, as I think if you offer to help that can also look like criticism (and reading between the lines, that may be part of this). Could you offer to take one to an activity, or bring a craft or baking activity to do with one child so that she can have quality time with the other? Basically, make it to her benefit.

So with my MIL she doesn’t think she’s ever done anything wrong but she made me feel very uncomfortable post partum:

• Negative around breastfeeding
• Asking for alone time with my newborn
• Demanding more visits

She’s not my mum so these things are harder to forgive and I won’t spend time with her without DH so she’ll only see DH when he’s available. With children I’m more tired and less willing to deal with people who irritate me to be honest.

Im not saying you’ve done anything necessarily but there may be things you might not be aware of?
I think spending time with her own family although hard for you is quite normal and best ignored.
I personally don’t think pushing babysitting is a good idea if she’s not wanting to be parted from the kids she won’t thank you for it.
I think try and develop your relationship with her as a person not just as a wife and mother - she may feel that’s all you see her as?

There's definitely something not right in the relationship, yes it's for your son to facilitate visits, but DIL does seem to be making it more difficult for him to.

Why is it too far for her to travel to you as it's not worth it just for the weekend, yet you are expected to travel the same distance just for the day. And on the times you have stayed over night, why shoved out to a hotel when they have at least one guest room in their house?

And why not tell you about the second pregnancy? That just seems spiteful.

And how is your relationship with your daughter compared to your son, because that's the real issue here. If sons were raised with the same sense of responsibility towards family as girls are, that wouldn't be a saying.

I think that all sounds fine, but I'm getting the impression your DIL is being a bit rude because she's frustrated and it's coming out in her behaviour.

I think having a visitor for a whole weekend every month is quite a lot. I wouldn't be happy with this at all. She's probably very aware that you want to spend more time with them, that can feel like it's never enough and it's claustrophobic.

I actually wonder if you'd get more if you backed off a bit, like I would just visit for a day and I would decide to be happy with that. She's probably upset to not have quality alone time with her husband for THREE weeks at a time.

I would only not tell someone I was pregnant until later if I thought they would be messaging me constantly for updates. I had this when I was planning my wedding and it was so overwhelming. Did you maybe do that? I understand you would be excited but it just added stress for me.

I would stop with the cooking/baking cakes if she's reacting badly to them. Maybe she feels like you're competing with her and showing her up by baking for your son/her husband whereas she isn't into those things and has help around the house.

I really think if you relax, appreciate seeing them monthly even though you live far away and your son is almost never home, everyone might be happier.

I'm not trying to be mean sorry if anything I've said is upsetting to you.

OP I have sons so have been aware this is a common dynamic.

And you sound lovely, thoughtful and kind and keen.

However, despite the fact I always liked my in laws plenty enough I wasn’t as relaxed around them as my own parents. I felt I had to be a bit on show or act as a host whereas with my own parents I could sit in PJs etc.
This wasn’t that there weren’t kind and welcoming just that I didn’t have the same history and comfort with them.

It is entirely normal that your DIL leans on her own mum. Your DS is rightly the one arranging family time with you. And the issue really is that as he isn’t a SAHD he just doesn’t have the amount of time to facilitate it as your DIL does with her family. Tbh the timelines you gave above sound like he’s being super generous with his time. Of course they want some weekends just as a family of four and if he’s working 2/4 by inviting you over 1/4 that’s pretty good going!

I wonder if DIL is actually slightly resentful of being pushed to see you more even if she likes you and this is creating some of her antagonism?

I know it’s two hours away but could you fly by a bit more for shorter visits? Take them lunch and then leave after a couple of hours? The pressure to entertain you with a full on ‘thoughtful family day out’ everytime you visit sounds exhausting and when you then say it isn’t enough they have to arrange an overnight with breakfast. Your desire to see them more may be making it actually less as it’s more of a full on commitment to have you visit.

I loved fleeting visits when I was a mum of young kids and my DH was working all the hours. Enough time to feel loved and part of a family but not so exhausting and didn’t rob us of much needed family time.

Yet admittedly my mum would come and hang out for longer as she just didn’t feel like a visitor. If your DS was a SAHD you might have been able to do the same but he isn’t so that’s how it is.

If you play it carefully now and be generous with accepting they are trying their best you might find it’s easier in the long run when the kids can come and stay with you and the adults get a weekend away!

I have seen this happen several times before and I very much doubt it is anything you are doing. Some women are just like this. Nice in the start, when good impressions need to be made to their partner - before commitments are made. Once commitments are made and especially after children arrive (when their feet are well and truly under the table) the need for good impressions is over. They are now in control and their family comes first.

It is very sad. I think the problem with confronting her about it - is that could well be used as reason to distance further. 'Your mum is being a bitch to me'. I have seen it happen.

My advice would be to just try and maintain relations with your son as much as possible and avoid any scenario where he needs to choose between you and her.

Exactly this. Personally I wouldn't be happy to have to 'share' with my in-laws 50% of family time (with my DH and DC).

If the shoe was on the other foot and the OP's DS was a SAHD in the scenario, and OP had a lot more visits and contact, would OP feel aggrieved for her DS if his in-laws were constantly demanding 'equal treatment' and equal amount of time spent, such that the DS had to host his in-laws on the days he isn't otherwise spending time with the OP?

True and it seems as if there might be problems in the marriage too based on the bits OP has shared about DS’ conversations about Sil. It does seem like she’s decided unilaterally she wants minimal contact with her in laws and DS is now starting to question / go against things.

It’s possible this might be a marriage that won’t last much longer and if that’s the case then OP just needs to communicate better with DS to get the access she wants.

I wonder also if maybe it doesn't stem from your DIL being pregnant, but maybe about the wedding? Just a thought. My MIL would say that she has always let us make our own decisions, but sometimes her "conversation" is really comparison - ie telling me how she used to do it.

Just a thought. But I do agree that actually expecting more than a full day at a weekend once a month where you stay over is, in the circumstances, quite a lot. I'd back off and be a bit cannier about it. You could ask DIL - you'd love to see the whole family at least once a month, because you love them all and DGC are growing so fast, she is doing an amazing job and you don't want to get in the way, you know she is really stretched for time. What can you do to see them without imposing?

It seems you’re comparing the time she spends with her parents vs you but she is seeing her parents mainly while your son is working and then he sometimes joins.

Honestly I don’t arrange to meet up with my mil without dh we just don’t have anything in common bar the children. He like wise would not and doesn’t arrange to meet my parents without me. He would rather stick pins in his eyes.

If he only has two weekends a month “free” a once a month visit is pretty fair tbh. That gives them one just them or one jointly with her parents then his working again.

You need to remember she as a person has a relationship with her mum and dad outside of the children. If you never had a popping in for coffee and chats and shopping or whatever one on one before children you shouldn’t expect that to change.

She’s still the same person just with added clingons and you only now want to see her more because of the children not because you just love and miss her so much and she knows that and let’s face it it’s not a nice feeling either only being wanted because of something you offer not out of true want.

Dh also wouldn’t take the children alone because frankly as the less time spent with the children parent he just doesn’t parent in the way that works best for a genuine nice well behaved trip more a Disney chaos or tense Mexican stand off. Plus I just didn’t need a break from my children. I didn’t have them to palm them off unnecessarily.

I guess the reality is there’s your version of events and her version, and who knows what her side might be. It seems common on this thread and in my experience with my own mil that if you have a difficult one that your patience wears thin after having kids. And it’s stuff like being self centred, talking non stop, making demands etc. it takes some serious self reflection to determine if you are doing this though!
I think the full on day once a month packed with activities sounds a lot. I would struggle with that tbh. Maybe speak to your son and see if there’s a more relaxed and less pressured way to visit. Or maybe skip a visit and see if that helps the situation. Yes it’s bad for you because you’ll miss out but maybe a bit of space on both sides is needed.

Op

i really don’t think you’ve done anything

it’s time to look forward to your other children having babies!

I know it’s hurtful but I really don’t think it is you

he seems to be going along with her wishes

they may have argued about this hence her behaviour towards you during visits

he can probably see how much you want the relationship to develop but is really at a loss given her reluctance

It seems that you want DIL to want to spend time with you but she doesn't. Your son facilitates you seeing the grandkids as much as he can.

The most benign reason could simply be: she is an anxious/overwhelmed mum, feels most at ease with her own parents, which no matter how nice you have been to her, you will never be. You said she was very polite beforehand. Personally, I'm more polite with people I'm not completely at ease with.

Medium case scenario - certain paranoia can awaken with new motherhood, and she'll need time to relax in to her role before she loosens up.

Worst case scenarios - you are crossed a line somewhere without knowing it. You've said you have made no comments except the c-section one. Other examples of this could range from giving gifts when you were asked not to, inappropriate gifts, food brought which wasn't welcome, talking too much about yourself and not asking how she and son are.

You said your son was typically a bit distant with you. Sons I have found are slow to tell their mum's if they are angry with them about something that happened in childhood - but they tell their wives all about it. If there were any issues in your son's childhood, she might not see you as safe.
I hope that's not hurtful to read and it's certainly not an accusation, but you do seem genuinely to want to know what could be up. You could ask your son one day, how was your childhood for you? But only if you're ready to hear there might be something there, and willing to accept what he says without getting defensive or making it about you in any way. If there is something, you'll need to rebuild trust with your son first. The kids will come later down the line.

Whatever may be going on - probably best to be patient and take it slow, though it must be hard.

As others have said it's quite natural for this dynamic to happen.

I like my mil. We get on well but I don't know her really. My conversations with her are more formal and we don't have much in common, so I may come across as rude, but I just don't really know what to say and I struggle to get the conversation to flow naturally.

Before dc I had more time and energy and was focused on dh so consequently his family too. I'm now burnt out and hanging on most weeks. My focus is putting all my available resources and energy into my dc and home. As cruel as it may seem I don't have the head space to consider my mil. It's up to dh to do that and he doesn't.

Lots of men are not as close to their parents when they get older. They are worse at arranging visits and keeping in touch. Sexiest but true majority of the time. It's well known that once married and in a family of their own, men seem to be more distant to their parents. It's probably something to do with nature and survival of the human race. They are often just not as bothered about social aspects of wider family.

Seeing my own mum is not effort. We see each other a few times per week and message daily, so she sees my dc more than mil. The difference is she sees me, I'm a person to her, not just mum to her grandchildren. It's natural to be in her company and easy to chat. I'm like a child again, she looks after me, she walks in, immediately puts the kettle on, without being asked, sorts the dishes while it's boiling and is totally relaxed in my home and me in hers. It's beneficial for me to see her, emotionally and physically. As it's me that does most of the childcare I unconsciously choose this over seeing mil because I need to survive mentally and often physically for my dc and she helps this. Again, probably something primal about survival,

Seeing my mil is a bit of a chore and I do resent it a bit as it's another thing I have to do that I'm not particularly fond of. It's more formal and another drain on my limited energy. It's probably unfair but that's just how it is for lots of people.

When me and dh are struggling due to trudging through the sludge survival mode. Our relationship obviously takes a back seat. This then reflects on my relationship with mil. I may come across as annoyed or rude or blunt but it's normally not her but a reflection of how I'm feeling overall and how I feel about dh at the time.

Your dil may not do the home cleaning and cooking but raising children is hard regardless. It's tiring regardless.

My mil won't know that I have an autoimmune disease. I 'look' normal, I act normal, I work and do things but the exhaustion, especially during a flare up can be all consuming. Maybe dil is experiencing something like this.

You sound lovely. Unfortunately it's about excepting the way it is and communicating more with your son.

A few posters have now said that perhaps I'm too much in trying to contact them or see them. As painful as it is, I'll try to back away a bit. It's usually 50/50 my son or me initiating the meet up so maybe I'll drop my 50 and see if he keeps up his 50... the only question is: sometimes me initiating a meet is saying "I'm staying at [DS's sibling's house in the same town] between X and Y November. Shall I see you one day over that weekend?" so in those cases should I still let him know? Feels a bit rude if I'm in town not to tell him... but equally I see what you mean about not imposing unless I'm invited.

Also, a few clarifications...

• DS works 1-2 weekends a month. Sometimes it's 1 day of 1 weekend, rarely both days of 2 weekends, most often it's something in between. I appreciate that it's still more than other people will work, but he does it for their family - for the kids, DIL and himself. So, whilst they don't have as much family time as they would if DS worked a 9-5 job, it's not like I am taking away 2 whole days of their 4 family ones
• most visits I don't stay over, it has happened on occasion but isnt the norm for us. It's usually something like me arriving at 10 (either by train in the morning from my town, or if I've been at my other child's house the previous day then stayed over) and then leaving around 4/5. On some occasions my son will pay for a hotel if he knows we won't see GC for a while after, if he just wants to treat us, if the train times make it awkward or if it's a special occasion for us, for example when we celebrated their dad's 70th.
• the other GPs live a 2hr drive away; so when I said she drives 2hrs one way in one day, that's literally just there or just back. She wouldn't drive the other way in the same day too. But it does illustrate the point that a 2hr drive isn't too much for one day but 2x 1hr drives in the same day to meet us halfway is a lot for her

Gosh this is really sad. Even if your dil wanted to keep visits low frequency she could at least be a bit nicer and a bit more welcoming when they do happen.

Do they see your other children and their families? Have any of them spoken to your DS about it?

If I was you I would carry on making efforts via your son as you are now- but don't push it. I totally understand why you are sad about this but you are kind of in a no win situation. If you push it too much, DIL will become resentful - if you back off too much then it could become the 'norm' and it becomes harder and harder to organise.

My advice would be to cheerfully keep trying to make plans through your son and take what he offers and make the most of it. Make it as easy for them as possible. Sounds very unfair but by trying to push for more it could just make it worse.

It does to me. My MIL is exactly the same.

OP, honestly you could be my MIL writing about me.

For me, we're just completely different people with completely different personalities and to be honest, she grates on me after more than a couple of hours.

She is a very loving and fantastic mother and grandmother so I arrange a visit to the IL's or them coming to us once every couple of months, but I have simply no desire to see any more of them than that and DH is too lazy and preoccupied with other things to see them anymore frequently.

The cooking thing and helping thing all too sound like my MIL. I just want to say to my MIL, just STOP. Absolutely see and have a relationship with your son and GC but stop trying to be overly 'helpful' just to try and score brownie points. It feels (to me) overbearing and intrusive.

Honestly I think the answer is simple, if you have similar personality and interests to your MIL and really enjoy each others company and get on like a house on fire, you'll naturally want to spend a lot of time with them. If you don't, then you won't. The fact that you live a distance away means when you do see one another, it's for a prolonged period. If it was just popping in for a cuppa once a week, I think your DIL would be a lot warmer towards you (I know I would my MIL)

This must be a bug bear for him though he hasn’t let you know. That he works this hard, earns so much for her to stay at home, but has to pay for a housekeeper 3 x a week and she doesn’t take on any of the faciliation work for gp contact that a normal sahm would while pissing off 2 hours one way multiple times a week to see her dp. The more you share the more I think the problem is her and their marriage.

Why would it be a big bear?
He sounds like he loves his wife and kids and doesn’t mind paying for extra help.
She doesn’t stop him arranging visits but she doesn’t go out of her way to arrange any direct which is normal considering they see them every month anyway.

My husband works full time and I didn’t work for years, I never arranged any visits with his family in that time, he arranged it all. I would never go out with them on my own or take the kids over. Absolutely nothing wrong in our relationship and we are still together now our kids are teens

and again - the Lovely DH allows his wife to stay home and therefore she should facilitate contact with a woman she would have nothing to do with if they weren't married...

It is not acceptable. And frankly, OP takes up a lot of their family time and he's not complaining about that (and from what we can ascertain nor is DIL even though she's apparently giving off vibes)

OP let it go, and enjoy what you have.

No Op, THEY pay for a hotel, just as THEY have a cleaner (rather than just her). Maybe your DiL is sick of your sexist attitude.
How often does your son drive to see his MiL?

Comparison and expecting equal treatment is not doing you any favors.

You seem like a genuinely lovely person, not overly judgmental or intrusive, but one visit a month is a perfectly reasonable amount of visits, especially with the distance involved.

I like my MIL, but she’s not my parent. It is ‘work’ and I have to be ‘on’ when we visit. I’m also not DH’s social secretary, he needs to be present and arrange his own family visits.
My mother stayed with me when I had broken my arm and leg, showered me, dropped everything and ran my household for nearly two months. I would never ask or accept that help from my MIL, the relationship is simply not the same. I spend lots of time with my parents, I won’t apologize or change that to appease my MIL.

i genuinely think you would be a lot happier if you stopped thinking about the time/effort your DIL gives to her parents. It is not something you can control, it is not something that is ever going to be ‘equal’. Enjoy the visits that you do have, continue to reach out to your son and let him know if you’re going to be in town and dial back the “helpfulness” that doesn’t sound like it is wanted or appreciated.