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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be confused why DIL has suddenly changed in how she treats me

668 replies

helpamilout · 12/11/2024 20:23

My son is in his mid-30s and has been with his wife for nearly a decade. They dated for 3-4 years before getting married. When they were dating, she was lovely—chatty, friendly and extremely polite, almost overly so, often saying things like, “Do you mind if I use your bathroom?” or “Thank you very much” for even small gestures.

After they got engaged, everything still seemed fine. But a couple of weeks before the wedding, they told us she was six weeks pregnant, and that’s when things began to change. She became more private and somewhat secretive about the pregnancy (which is of course her right—it was just very different from how she had been before). She was quieter in conversations and didn’t reach out to us as much as she used to. I don’t believe we did anything to cause this; we avoided giving unsolicited advice and tried to be supportive. The only thing I can think of is that I once mentioned C-sections having longer recovery times when she shared she was considering it, but that seems minor.

We also expressed that we were very excited to meet the baby, though we didn’t pressure them with specific timing. We ended up meeting our grandchild when they were one month old, while her mom met the baby in the hospital and her dad when the baby was just three days old. When she was pregnant with their second, they didn’t tell us until she was 20 weeks along, even though it seemed her close friends already knew.

They never ask us to babysit but often ask her parents. They visit her parents once a month, but they only come to see us once or twice a year, despite us living the same distance away (a couple of hours, though in the opposite direction). I do see them a bit more often because I go to visit them, but they never invite me to stay overnight, whereas her mom often stays with them.

It’s perhaps worth noting that my daughter-in-law is a stay-at-home mom, and my son works long hours, sometimes on weekends. While arranging visits should ideally be a joint effort, it often falls on her since my son can’t really insist on her seeing us when he isn’t around. My son does make an effort to plan visits with us when he’s off work, but when I do visit, she seems distant and disengaged. I’ve heard her mention that the drive to us is “far,” yet she drives the same distance to her parents regularly. During visits, she often seems uninterested and sometimes responds quite shortly. For instance, when I asked how long the baby typically naps, she just shrugged and said, “Depends.” And when I brought a homemade banana cake for everyone to share, she laughed and said he doesn’t like bananas anymore.

I’m confused what has caused this. I’ve asked my son but he says everything is fine. Should I ask her? If so, how? Can MNers see what I’ve made done wrong or help me guess?

OP posts:
NoisyDenimShaker · 13/11/2024 10:13

The DIL doesn't work and has a housekeeper three times a week. I don't think being too busy and stressed can be the reason that she's distant with her MIL.

Fingerscrossedfor2021HK · 13/11/2024 10:15

Hmmm - I was initially ready to put it down to DIL just being tired and wanting some time with her husband / her own parents and it’s just so more easier with your own blood relatives and to commiserate with you. However, based on some of your updates, you come off as if having a housekeeper means there is no mental load. I have 3 staff to manage and it’s extra mental load!!! Sure, I don’t physically do the laundry, cook or clean etc but I am managing what happens and when.

Also, the comment about c section recovery times likely came off (was intended to?) as judgmental / critical of an elective section. I have had two - the first planned due to placenta praevia (would have died had I gone into labour) and the second elective but in the end emergency due to reduced movements. My recoveries were a breeze and many friends who had straightforward vaginal births were surprised that I was walking within 12 hours and up and fully mobile (with minimal pain) within 24-36 and out shopping on day 4. Then there were my friends whose planned vaginal deliveries went wrong - some were still in agony months later.

I bet your DIL is picking up on these subtle or not so subtle digs.

helpamilout · 13/11/2024 10:17

Anxioustealady · 13/11/2024 08:51

@helpamilout could you please tell me, what's a situation you would be content with? Like how much contact, babysitting, staying over etc etc

I think more than anything, I'd like the "atmosphere" to disappear - the way that when I do visit the sighs, short responses and subtle comments suggesting it's time to leave, to not be there. Or at least for me to know what I've done to make her feel so put out every visit.

Also I'd like to be treated as an equal grandparent. Comments like "it's too far to drive to yours" when she drives the same distance to her parents' or being told about a pregnancy at 20 weeks when everyone knows. If I'm in their area anyway, I'd like to be allowed to join my grandchildren for a walk. I'm happy to pop on the train and go there and back in a day if it means a short visit to my grandkids, even a couple of hours - how much am I really inconveniencing anyone by doing this? Being allowed to visit when my grandchild is a newborn, rather than at 1mo old when her parents, their friends and everyone else has met the baby...

OP posts:
helpamilout · 13/11/2024 10:19

@Fingerscrossedfor2021HK I didn't mean the c section comment as a dig, I was sharing my experience - I've had a c section and 2 vaginal births. She knows this. I simply said that from my social circle (admittedly all these ladies have birth 30+ years ago) c sections seemed to have a longer recovery time

OP posts:
CustardCreams2 · 13/11/2024 10:24

She sounds quite silly and immature. I don’t think you deserve this. However I do agree some of that onus is on your son, for example to insist that of course his parents will be meeting his new baby. Does he appear to be quite under her instruction all the time?

Babycatsmummy · 13/11/2024 10:30

CustardCreams2 · 13/11/2024 09:42

Gosh, she sounds worse than Megan Markle. Very sad.

What can you do 🤷‍♀️

it’s so difficult in these situations. You don’t want to push your relative even further away by confronting but you already feel like the distance is there. She’s as nice as pie the rare occasions we do see them so its hard to understand what the problem is. I completely get as an individual you almost always prefer your own family. I’ve had a few MiL related experiences when I was pregnant but they’ve been ironed out and we get on really well now. I don’t think the OP is being terribly unreasonable as it does appear there was some issue before but it does seem to have been made worse with the threats of not going to the wedding etc. sometimes you have to bite your tongue and wait for an opportune moment to have a gently conversation but either way someone will always be offended

lemonstolemonade · 13/11/2024 10:32

Yeah, I would have found the C section comment really annoying. I mean, it's pretty obvious and something every medical professional tells you AND it is equally not the whole story because some women have to have one, some women will be better off having one and some women will have nightmare births (especially with current state of maternity services - you have to see them to fully understand now). You're basically saying that her instinct is a ridiculous one or she is a moron for not having done her research or otherwise expecting her to justify her choice to you as otherwise sensible. It's quite invasive to comment on someone else's birth choice - I think that you know it didn't go down well as you picked it out as a comment.

Re food, I agree that she might have been ungrateful, but also maybe when you visit ask your son what you can bring, emphasising that you WANT to, it's not a comment on whether DW can do it.

If you also do this in other ways, or have historically, she may just have run out of patience for making nice with two small kids.

I put a lot of effort into being nicey nicey with my MIL before marriage and kids - firstly, I had more energy for it. Secondly, I didn't feel so obviously scrutinised or compared. I do actually still do a lot for my MIL and encourage my DH to take the kids to see them with me or alone, but I don't put up with things in the way that I used to!

It sounds as if your DIL is not that comfortable around you, for whatever reason. That can be biology - hormones can make you perceive threat. But she probably can pick up on the fact that you think she is not pulling her weight domestically and maybe other subtle indicators of her being "less".

helpamilout · 13/11/2024 10:34

@HappyMummaOfOne

You say that your didn’t find out about the second pregnancy until she was 20weeks and that you suspect her friends knew before you. I’m sorry to say that you are probably right, she would have told people closer to her way earlier than this. But…your son could have told you, but he chose not to. Ask yourself why. Are you close?

Yes we are close! I actually asked him a short while after they announced it and he said that she wanted to keep the pregnancy quiet, not tell everyone and as it's happening inside her body he felt he needs to respect that. I didn't want to go into a full argument with him over who does know, why they knew before me etc. When she went into labour he messaged me that it's happening but asked me not to share with her that I know, because again, she wanted to keep that quiet until the baby is born. The "official" message to us that the baby is born ie when DIL was comfortable announcing and we were allowed to know, on our family group chat (myself, DH, our 4 children and their partners) came once they'd been at home for a day already.
I get the feeling that he is torn between not wanting to lose the closeness that we have as a family (ie him, siblings and us parents) but also respecting his wife's wishes and not forcing her into things she isn't comfortable with. His dad and I were very much a joint unit when raising him and I think he puts his "new" family above us parents, which as sad as it is, in my opinion is the right thing to do and what we are programmed to do from an evolutionary perspective.

If she says you have done something are you prepared to apologise or change?

Yes, absolutely! I'm willing to have a conversation about it, reflect and either do more of something that I've been missing or not repeat something I've done before.

OP posts:
helpamilout · 13/11/2024 10:40

Cardinalita90 · 13/11/2024 09:53

You mentioned its a couple of hours drive. Could you suggest occasionally meeting for a day trip somewhere in the middle? As other posters have mentioned, one weekend a month when he works 2 seems fair but the occasional halfway meet-up might help and remove the obstacle of the visit needing to be a few days at a time?

We've done this once, and I would very happily do it. DIL says that it's still a bit far (this was with 1 little one, let alone 2 kids) to go, an hours drive is a lot for a child each way and that it disrupts their schedule, and she feels sad that they spend 2hrs in the car (an hour each way) rather than using that time to play outside.
Of course I could mention that she regularly does a 2hr drive to her parents' house, one way, obviously in one day... but what do I get out of this - if she doesn't want to, she doesn't want to, and forcing her won't do any good.

OP posts:
arethereanyleftatall · 13/11/2024 10:49

You keep comparing yourself with her own mother and are basing everything off that. That is only going to end in your pain. I am very very close to my daughters and like to think we will be good friends once they're adults. You can't compete with that, which is a shame but reality, and trying to, isn't making you happy.

Objectively, discounting what she spends with her mother, once a month - given that fact that they have decided as a couple they'd rather your son is essentially an absent parent, but provides very well financially - is a lot.

CocoDC · 13/11/2024 10:52

helpamilout · 13/11/2024 10:40

We've done this once, and I would very happily do it. DIL says that it's still a bit far (this was with 1 little one, let alone 2 kids) to go, an hours drive is a lot for a child each way and that it disrupts their schedule, and she feels sad that they spend 2hrs in the car (an hour each way) rather than using that time to play outside.
Of course I could mention that she regularly does a 2hr drive to her parents' house, one way, obviously in one day... but what do I get out of this - if she doesn't want to, she doesn't want to, and forcing her won't do any good.

Why didn’t you mention that at the time? I just feel if she’s deliberately lying to you and you know that, then calling it out will help to clear the air.

Also a 4 hour drive in a day to see her family multiple times a week is insane by the way. I suspect she probably isn’t coping with being a mum and DH knows it. But you are the closer DGP so offering up more support would only help her.

Gowlett · 13/11/2024 10:54

What age is her baby? Having a small baby is hard.
It’s not you, it’s her. Her child is her main focus now.

Phonicshaskilledmeoff · 13/11/2024 10:55

Pick a kids activity near her ie a play farm and take them there as a treat. Not an imposition on her with visitors in the house, you’re the good guy and it’s neutral territory. no need for small talk - lots to see and do and you can focus on grandkids.

If you can’t afford this regularly, maybe that’s what you buy for Xmas and birthdays.

I do think this is on your son though - he should be arranging time with you. There may be things going on in their marriage that you don’t know about though - this may not be about you at all.

AreYouBrandNew · 13/11/2024 11:01

have you discussed the situation with your other children? They might shed light on her personality/preferences?

Brefugee · 13/11/2024 11:13

Also I'd like to be treated as an equal grandparent.

you are not an "equal grandparent" in your DILs eyes. Are you honestly excting her to portion out her time with her own mother based on how little time you spend with your son? Honestly, you keep posting but are you reading?

CocoDC · 13/11/2024 11:16

Brefugee · 13/11/2024 11:13

Also I'd like to be treated as an equal grandparent.

you are not an "equal grandparent" in your DILs eyes. Are you honestly excting her to portion out her time with her own mother based on how little time you spend with your son? Honestly, you keep posting but are you reading?

She travels 4 hours a day multiple times a week to see her DPs and only started this after having a baby but won’t do it for pils who live closer. Seems like DS organises a monthly catch up which is nice but it does sound like dil might be mentally unwell.

almay · 13/11/2024 11:17

I’m laughing at the idea having a housekeeper three days a week means there’s nothing else to be done the other four days. With two young children?? Not a hope.

If that’s the attitude I can’t really blame her for not bending over backwards to facilitate more contact

CocoDC · 13/11/2024 11:22

almay · 13/11/2024 11:17

I’m laughing at the idea having a housekeeper three days a week means there’s nothing else to be done the other four days. With two young children?? Not a hope.

If that’s the attitude I can’t really blame her for not bending over backwards to facilitate more contact

Lol. Do you have any idea what Housekeepers do? Dil will literally have no housework beyond direct childcare to do. cooking, laundry, is all sorted and this housekeeper comes 3 days a week which is a lot. But I guess she needs it if she’s driving 4 hours a day multiple times a week to see her DP.

Brefugee · 13/11/2024 11:22

CocoDC · 13/11/2024 11:16

She travels 4 hours a day multiple times a week to see her DPs and only started this after having a baby but won’t do it for pils who live closer. Seems like DS organises a monthly catch up which is nice but it does sound like dil might be mentally unwell.

yes but that is nothing to do with OP and all to do with how the DIL wants to spend her time.

I don't have sons but i can imagine it does feel like a bit of a slap in the face to MILs in this position - but that is just how life works out. So instead of hoiking the judgy pants up so high that they will give you thrush, why not talk to your son about it?

Seems to me the son is fine with this arrangement. he sees his mother with his children every month. If it hasn't occurred to him that it's not enough for his mum then it is up to her to speak to him about it. And if he is still fine with it then OP will have to, for lack of a better phrase, suck it up.

What DIL does in her time with her parents is none of MILs concern. If anyone tried to tell me that i need to cut back on seeing my own flesh and blood family so my MIL was happier i'd laugh in their face then just carry on as i had been.

ABirdsEyeView · 13/11/2024 11:29

Seems to me like any opinion mil has will be justification for dil to cut her out of the loop. It's outrageous to not let grandparents see the new baby for a month, to not announce a pregnancy when literally everyone else has been told. Dil is being deliberately and obviously rude and only doing the absolute bare minimum she can get away with.

She won't let her dh take the dc yo his mums without her, which negates the view that it's OPs DS who needs to facilitate the children's relationship with his own parents. Dil blocks it.
I honestly understand her not wanting to be without her dc and even not trusting anyone bar her own parents to look after them. I was the same tbh. But that being the case I do think she needs to put aside her dislike of OP and make some time for her to see the children.

OP I don't think you've done anything wrong - she cba and that's on her not you.
I do think your DS should locate his balls and tell his wife that she's being unreasonable and rude. Fine if she doesn't want to see you, but not fine to prevent him from ever taking the kids to you.

lawlessland · 13/11/2024 11:32

I can really see why you are feeling excluded OP but I can also see how it happens.

I like my in laws, they're very nice and pleasant but not people I've ever spent time with on my own, it's always with my partner.

We don't really have a lot in common. Now I might not with some of my own family either in some ways but we have history and love and a shared experience to call on.

It's natural and easy. I don't need to be on my best behaviour, I can put my feet on the couch, sit around in my comfy clothes and not be on duty. I can see why she'd spend so much time there with her husband working so much.
And 3 days a week housekeeper doesn't mean there's no housework or mental load for her.

I don't have that relaxed way with my in laws and probably never will. I can't help that and honestly don't really want to change it.

@helpamilout the only way you're going to know is a very open and honest conversation with your DIL and that's possibly something she's not willing to have. Your son will just bat away your worries because it's not up to him to tell you what she thinks/feels.

He doesn't want to hurt you and she probably doesn't either.

You could write her a letter but you'd have to be very careful to be understanding and non-judgmental. I think you judge her more than you are admitting here and it does come across on your posts.

almay · 13/11/2024 11:35

CocoDC · 13/11/2024 11:22

Lol. Do you have any idea what Housekeepers do? Dil will literally have no housework beyond direct childcare to do. cooking, laundry, is all sorted and this housekeeper comes 3 days a week which is a lot. But I guess she needs it if she’s driving 4 hours a day multiple times a week to see her DP.

So she’ll never have to clean the floors, the bathrooms etc on those other days? Never have to cook another morsel of food for any of them? If she’s leaving all the laundry to just three days they must have a never ending supply of clothes, towels, bedsheets etc.

nah I’m not buying the narrative that she sits around all day

thepariscrimefiles · 13/11/2024 11:37

helpamilout · 13/11/2024 10:17

I think more than anything, I'd like the "atmosphere" to disappear - the way that when I do visit the sighs, short responses and subtle comments suggesting it's time to leave, to not be there. Or at least for me to know what I've done to make her feel so put out every visit.

Also I'd like to be treated as an equal grandparent. Comments like "it's too far to drive to yours" when she drives the same distance to her parents' or being told about a pregnancy at 20 weeks when everyone knows. If I'm in their area anyway, I'd like to be allowed to join my grandchildren for a walk. I'm happy to pop on the train and go there and back in a day if it means a short visit to my grandkids, even a couple of hours - how much am I really inconveniencing anyone by doing this? Being allowed to visit when my grandchild is a newborn, rather than at 1mo old when her parents, their friends and everyone else has met the baby...

I think you are unreasonable to expect your DIL to drive to your house because she drives to her parents. In neither case would your son be present, so it is understandable that your DIL feels more comfortable visiting her parents without your son but may feel less comfortable visiting you on her own with the children.

The tense atmosphere doesn't sound great, but maybe if your DIL is aware that you don't think the monthly weekend visits are enough, despite your son arranging pleasurable activities and sorting out a hotel, she is showing her displeasure in this way.

ABirdsEyeView · 13/11/2024 11:44

Honest question but how do you not judge someone who is lying to your face and making their dislike obvious?

I think I was very much like the dil (I found my in-laws to be hard work and claustrophobic tbh), except I didn't have a housekeeper to free me from all the boring parts of sah. As much as I didn't fancy seeing my in-laws as much as I did, I felt they (and more important my dc) had a right to form those bonds and so I did include my mil in my children's lives (fil died when dc1 was small).

We can't always do exactly what we would prefer at all times because it's selfish and other people have feelings too.

Something else to consider is that one day our parents are gone and this can affect us in ways we don't fully anticipate. Guilt about the times we could have behaved better, comes back to bite us in the arse and cause potential conflict between husband and wife, if there's a perception that dil or sil behaved unkindly. Even if it was deemed okay at the time. Mil can't do anything about that - it's not something you can warn your own kids about really, but worth keeping in mind.

Nothing2CHere · 13/11/2024 11:44

NoisyDenimShaker · 13/11/2024 00:19

Don't you think it's a bit selfish of you both to disregard your MILs like that? One day you will be MILs and I'm sure will want to see your GCs and be included. I can only assume that you both have at least one daughter, so you don't think you need to fear being in your MILs' shoes. There's a ring of "I'm all right Jack" about these two posts. I'll never understand some people's carelessness towards older people. (I've seen a lot of middle-aged people just not bother about their parents, in general.)

Well, daughters can exclude you just as well as sons. I hope you don't walk in your MILs' shoes one day. You should include them more because it's the right thing to do, plus it benefits your children.

Edited

You sound bitter.

Just because something is right for others doesn't mean it's the right thing for you. Why should anyone be forced to or guilt tripped into doing something simply because it is beneficial to other people? Why is that person "selfish" if they wanted to prioritise their own needs or hold firm to their boundaries?

These days, mothers in particular are being pulled in all directions and are made to (or by default) put their kids/spouse/family/work/friends/home ahead of themselves. Instead of calling people "selfish" we should normalise the idea that it is OK to put yourself first once in a while.