New job wanting proof she can speak her first language

[Scoras]

DD is 22, she graduated uni this summer and has been offered a job with conditions. Until DD was 15 we lived in France, her dad is French-English and I’m Italian. DD went to an international school and was taught in French, English and had “additional language classes” in Italian. She is fully fluent in all 3. Did her French and Italian GCSEs here without studying them in school, same again for A-level.
DD then studied business management and Spanish. She’d never done Spanish before but the course allowed them to pick a language from beginning or continue with a Language already spoken. As she was fluent in all 3 languages she spoke she picked a new one.

Her new job is at an international company in a client facing role, one of the big requirements is being bilingual. The job advert was for French or Spanish speakers, she obviously mentioned she has both.

Now DD still speaks with a French accent, it’s not as strong as it once was but it’s definitely not missable, her phone is set to French, she thinks in French etc. She speaks to her dad and grandparents in French and to me and my family in Italian. By all means it’s her first language - but the workplace is requiring evidence of her fluency, such as an exam or something? They’ve also said it would be beneficial to prove her fluency in Italian but English and Spanish are fine because she studied at uni in those languages.

AIBU to think this is crazy? Obviously she’s probably going to have to let this job go as she doesn’t have any certificate to prove she can speak her first language past A-level, who does??

If shes applying for a job and they want proof of ability of a core part of a client facing job, then she just has to get the proof surely? Why would they take anyone's word for it?

The Australian medical council changed the goalposts just before our visa was granted and wanted proof that dh could speak English fluently. Having a British passport listing his place of birth, his GCSE and A level certificates and his British university medical degree were not considered enough 🤣. In the end we sent them his 11+ pass certificate which they decided was sufficient evidence of childhood education in an English speaking country and visa granted the next day! Is there any kind of equivalent test result you could send which would suggest a French childhood?

Do you frequently get asked to prove your ability to speak your first language?

Can she accept the job and part of her probation be that she provides some objective evidence within a reasonable time? (DELF/DALF/C1/C2 etc)

I mean if she can speak 4 languages fluently they would be mad to let her get away because of this procedural item. And anyway if I read OP correctly, she fulfills the criteria of English + 1 and can prove it, surely that should be enough to satisfy HR for now?
Worth a try, everything is negotiable if you can speak to the right person.

HR teams often don't have a single proof route, because there are so many options.

Can she get references from both of those internship employers that she speaks the languages fluently? That plus passport copies might be enough. Or a reference from the International school to state that she went there and was required to be fluent in French for lessons?

Definitely take the Alliance Francaise tests.
A level is not fluent, nor is a degree in French necessarily, in my experience, despite it requiring a year or more residence in France.

My English cousin has lived in Germany for 20 years. He is 'fluent' in German but with no academic ability in German can't pass any written tests yet and couldn't possibly write up reports etc for a Company.

When I was interviewed for a job as an A level Oral Examiner in French the Examination Board wouldn't accept my degree or time spent living in France as proof. They produced a native French speaking academic to interview me. Quite rightly.

Seems mad that she can’t just say ‘look, I grew up in France, my dad is french and English, my mum is Italian, I use all 3 languages constantly, Spanish is my fourth language’… in more businessy (and perhaps quad-lingual 😄) terms… their loss!

Wish I could speak even just one other language, very impressive!

The tests run each month in France, rather than quarterly here.

Can she do the test in France? Some exam centres are a lot cheaper than others.
An example,CY Cergy Paris Université, C1/C2 in December is 200 euros.

I haven't read the full thread but who is she communicating with? I work in a different industry, so it might not be relevant. We would pass this sort of thing on to HR, who would follow policies. Is there a hiring manager she could go back to if no luck? They may be able to be more flexible, knowing the details of the role.

If they have French speakers (which they must surely) she should just ask if they will do an extra interview or phone interview with her in French. DH is Canadian and you need French for govt jobs there, they tested him by switching back and forth between French and English in the interview (he bombed it 😂) A native speaker should surely be able to tell if she's fluent without demanding tests she doesn't need and certificates she has no use for.

I find this odd. Do they not have internal people who can test linguistic competence? Or set tests? Have role play? Just asking for “proof” is lazy and is obviously geared to uni MFL grads. I would contact HR and ask about alternatives to a certificate.

Dumbfounded is a massive overreaction, given how few people take A level languages these days and it's been on the decline for years, why would people who didn't take them know this? Are you easily surprised?

There is a single proof route of language proficiency in Europe, it's CEFR. It's the standard accepted by all businesses in Europe (including the UK).

https://www.coe.int/en/web/common-european-framework-reference-languages/table-1-cefr-3.3-common-reference-levels-global-scale

For most jobs where you're expected to work in the language the minimum CEFR will be B2 proficiency.

A graduate qualification taught and examined in a language will usually be accepted. But anyone serious about going for a multi-lingual/multinational career would both be aware of CEFR and would be gaining the appropriate CEFR certificate alongside NARIC validation of their academic qualifications.

I would ask the employers from the French internship to provide a letter explaining she is fluent in French. I’ve accepted things like this when recruiting before.

@DogInATent not for their native language though!

Can she get to Paris to take the test there?

I was teaching English last year- some people could speak well, but hadn't learned to read and write in English at all - a fluency test will check all language use.

I dont think it's crazy at all - they are hiring her for a role so want evidence of her language skills. Has she discussed with them to ask what sort if evidence they would accept? Could she suggest she has an additional interview with one of their French speakers. This should demonstrate her French if no formal certificate.

Do you frequently get asked to prove your ability to speak your first language?

Well, yes - in the sense that most jobs require English GCSE's, plus the entire application and interview will be in English.

But they don't have proof that French is her native language - being born somewhere doesn't prove you speak the language (let alone with any degree of fluency) and she did all her exams in England so again, no proof.

I'm not surprised they ask for proof, think about all those people who exaggerate on their CVs! I agree asking them to interview her in French might work!

I've had issues with this too. Needing to certify a mother tongue ...

https://www.alliancefr.org/course/product/examen-dalf-c2-942?category=17&search=dalf

If your daughter can make it to Paris - she can get a DALF C2 at l'alliance française here.

Can you send a photo of all her primary and secondary school reports, which are presumably in French?

She should ask them to speak to her then. A quick chat will soon reassure them!

Well that's the solution though isn't it? No need for a certificate (which might be quite old, I have a certificate that is equivalent to A level French but it's very rusty these days). Much better to have a chat and potentially ask her to do a quick work task in French.

Surely the simplest solution is to find the person who's asked for proof at the company, do a bit of legwork to find their phone number, then call them to explain the problem and ask what kind of solution they can come up with between them...

...in French.