New job wanting proof she can speak her first language

[Scoras]

DD is 22, she graduated uni this summer and has been offered a job with conditions. Until DD was 15 we lived in France, her dad is French-English and I’m Italian. DD went to an international school and was taught in French, English and had “additional language classes” in Italian. She is fully fluent in all 3. Did her French and Italian GCSEs here without studying them in school, same again for A-level.
DD then studied business management and Spanish. She’d never done Spanish before but the course allowed them to pick a language from beginning or continue with a Language already spoken. As she was fluent in all 3 languages she spoke she picked a new one.

Her new job is at an international company in a client facing role, one of the big requirements is being bilingual. The job advert was for French or Spanish speakers, she obviously mentioned she has both.

Now DD still speaks with a French accent, it’s not as strong as it once was but it’s definitely not missable, her phone is set to French, she thinks in French etc. She speaks to her dad and grandparents in French and to me and my family in Italian. By all means it’s her first language - but the workplace is requiring evidence of her fluency, such as an exam or something? They’ve also said it would be beneficial to prove her fluency in Italian but English and Spanish are fine because she studied at uni in those languages.

AIBU to think this is crazy? Obviously she’s probably going to have to let this job go as she doesn’t have any certificate to prove she can speak her first language past A-level, who does??

Even the fluency tests are a bit crock to be honest. I’m B2, which would set anyone French who’s worked with me in fits of laughter.

Could she phone them and explain the problem, in French?

The company is showing a poor understanding of multilingualism which is a real shame. If French is one of her first languages then she shouldn’t be having to ‘prove’ her competence any more than she should in English. I would suggest she finds a diplomatic way to push back gently and explain this to them, try to get them on board with the fact that she’s bilingual. She should try to give the impression she is being cooperative, while pointing out that if it is not routine for the company to require proof of first language competency, then they should not require proof of competency in French. I guess what they’re looking for is some evidence that she has a level of French that is fully nuanced and would be able to cope beyond social / conversational situations - in which case, could she offer to do a work sample or ‘mock’ telephone call for them? They must have French speakers at the company. Hope she gets it sorted, what a shame that multilingualism is so poorly understood and can lead to issues like this.

Don’t do tests now in anticipation of a future need as most have a short validity (two years) so they can actually “expire” on you!

Agreed.

Just passed the replies on, she’s going to call them when they open and explain in French the problem, ask what certifications they would accept and if this can’t be arranged until after the start date what do they propose.

That sounds like a good starting point. I'm really surprised that a company who works across multiple countries in multiple languages doesn't already have clear policies for this and set plans in place for what is needed etc before appointing staff. They sound pretty disorganised and a bit clueless.

Glad she’s got a plan. It does sound odd that they didn’t proactively set out what was acceptable, instead of just saying what wasn’t.

I think so too! Surely a conversation and a written test would be enough? (Perhaps accompanied by her French passport).

There are very short exams people take when applying for citizenship of various countries. A certificate is issued at the end of the exam. Would something like this be sufficient?

I hope negotiating for a Jan test date will work.

If necessary, perhaps DD could ask about approaching an independent, PhD linguist (and French speaker) at a university language centre for a private assessment? In the UK, I mean.

It is getting more difficult to find a university language centre staffed by language scholars (as opposed to YP with a generic ESL qualification) but they do exist, and some should be expert with European Framework. Perhaps someone would agree to provide a private assessment of DD. I would hope the company would pay for it, if they are unwilling to wait for the 8 Jan exam date.

Sadly the days of switching languages and doing informal assessments are long gone, just as at university one can no longer quietly accept a late piece of coursework from a student who left their hospital bed prematurely to turn it in. Everything must be done by the books.

A Level is nowhere near fluent! There's a huge gap between A Level ability and fluency. She should probably take a test with the Institut Francaise, but you might be surprised by the level - if she left France at 15, even though she can read, write and speak fluently she's unlikely to have been exposed to 'professional' French with all the nuance and implicit meanings. Conversational level is far removed from professional French.

DH is from another European country and left aged 16. He is very bright and articulate, and speaks 3 languages. He says he'd struggle with working in his mother tongue because he's never experienced it in a professional context. Whilst he'd understand everything, he'd not get the finer nuances, and it would take him a good while to acclimatise.

Do the employers speak French? Speaking to them in French won't help if they can't understand her.

They sound really daft.

I have dual French and British nationality. I guess I could show my French passport to prove my fluency in that language and I certainly would not take any exams to confirm it...

Really all that this workplace need to do is get a French-speaking staff member to have a chat with her and get her to do a little written test in the language if they really need to double-check her level.

DH had to sit English language exams to get his visa here, slightly odd as his entire medical degree was done in a university that only offered English, but fair enough.

What was more random what's him having to sit it again with every visa renewal until he got his British passport. He's lived and worked in England for 10 years at that point!

It’s not odd they want to check.

I can’t tell you how many stories I have of people applying for jobs with stated qualifications and language proficiencies that turn out to be wildly untrue.

they’re just doing their due diligence. Ask what they need and it should be way to comply,

I did my homecountry‘s equivalent of A-levels partially in Italian (but it was a semi-foreign language for me) and has always been sufficient (which is starting to feel a bit dishonest lately. My Italian is incredibly rusty…🙊)

but I did have to sit the Cambridge C1 in English as proof of proficiency (which I passed with As, which apparently means that one‘s English is at a C2 🤔).
It really seems to depend 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Can she do the Delf exam? my daughter goes to an International school, doing IB, and is fluent in French, they are all encouraged to do the Delf B1 and B2. Your daughter will coast through it. They run the exams a few times a year, so not sure how soon she could do it.

It is a strange request from the company considering she grew up in France with a French parent.

I’m not sure how her French could possibly be any worse than her Spanish considering she used French all the time. She’s did an internship in Nice in the summer just gone (and one in Milan the year before that). We speak entirely in French/Italian at home.

Does she has a french passport as evidence of being born in France?

Rhianis quite common in the city. I have a friend who is English speaking, conducted his interviews etc in English but because he is from another country and did his university degree in another language (school was Engliah though), he had to take an English language proficiency test. His employer agreed it was ridiculous but there was nothing they could do. His degree was in a different language!

So her uni will be fine for English and Spanish always i think.

Depending on the firm she's working for, even if she can't take the test until January that may well be fine.

She does, and a British and Italian one.

She can take the DELF exam en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplôme_d'études_en_langue_française

I had to do an English test (IELTS) for my visa despite being an English teacher with a bachelors and masters in English! Thankfully I passed 😅

As someone who works with immigrants, being born somewhere is not actually a good metric for fluency, as it is very common for first generation immigrants not to speak their parents' language at all. A fluency test from IELTS costs about £40. Just book it and say she will provide the certificate on completion.