New job wanting proof she can speak her first language

[Scoras]

DD is 22, she graduated uni this summer and has been offered a job with conditions. Until DD was 15 we lived in France, her dad is French-English and I’m Italian. DD went to an international school and was taught in French, English and had “additional language classes” in Italian. She is fully fluent in all 3. Did her French and Italian GCSEs here without studying them in school, same again for A-level.
DD then studied business management and Spanish. She’d never done Spanish before but the course allowed them to pick a language from beginning or continue with a Language already spoken. As she was fluent in all 3 languages she spoke she picked a new one.

Her new job is at an international company in a client facing role, one of the big requirements is being bilingual. The job advert was for French or Spanish speakers, she obviously mentioned she has both.

Now DD still speaks with a French accent, it’s not as strong as it once was but it’s definitely not missable, her phone is set to French, she thinks in French etc. She speaks to her dad and grandparents in French and to me and my family in Italian. By all means it’s her first language - but the workplace is requiring evidence of her fluency, such as an exam or something? They’ve also said it would be beneficial to prove her fluency in Italian but English and Spanish are fine because she studied at uni in those languages.

AIBU to think this is crazy? Obviously she’s probably going to have to let this job go as she doesn’t have any certificate to prove she can speak her first language past A-level, who does??

Ah is it maybe a finance world thing then? I appreciate the need to be thorough but I’d have thought the French accent might be a give away!

Well, can’t she ask them in any of her 4 languages what proof they would like?

It’s quite a burden on her to have to take an exam.
Is there any documentation of her having lived in France, such as registrations or something with her address? She could send that with her French passport.
I’ve never encountered this problem — either they switch languages at the interview or if the interviewer doesn’t speak all my languages someone else who does calls me later. It’s easy to tell from a few minutes on the phone. Perhaps she could suggest this.

Genuinely dumbfounded that people think an A level means fluent. I got an A at A level reasonably effortlessly and could in a brief conversation get away with people thinking I was fluent but I most certainly wasn't. Not to the level of competency needed to slot right in to a work place.

No idea why they don't just interview in the various languages they require though! Or do an assessment as part of the recruitment process

I worked for a company requiring fluency in two languages and we just held in depth interviews in both languages. Perhaps she could suggest that to them, or even a phone call, as an interim if is going to take time to arrange a qualification they are happy with. Not sure why they can't just do that anyway.

Please can I add to what PPs have said:
A level is NOT proof of fluency, nowhere near.

She has, it’s more the fact that the evidence they need isn’t something easily obtained over night.
They told her something like the DALF or CILS.

Also just the asking something with a French accent - to prove they speak French seems a little odd!

As per many previous posters - a friend needed to be fluent in French for a UN job: that competency was tested via some interview questions being conducted in French.

Well it’s likely most employers would want something similar for a similar role then. Maybe she could see if they would offer her the job on condition she gets what they want.

I would consider asking them what they generally require for immigrants who’ve completed their studies in English, given few have documentary evidence of proficiency in their first language. And add ‘it seems like your process excludes native speakers of languages other than English, since your language verification processes don’t appear to permit you to employ us? I am happy to undertake an interview in my native language or otherwise demonstrate my capability.’

The thing is a lot of children grow up in "bilingual" households and can speak french (for instance) well but their written / reading french may be fairly poor. I knew quite a few children like that growing up, they actually struggled with A levels in "their" language whilst sounding very french (or whatever) when they spoke. I can totally see why the company wants some certification. What I don't understand is why they don't build it into the interview process.

Do you have proof of her address for the first 15 years of her life?

Proof you're Italian?

Other than that I'd offer for her to have a conversation with the company in the language they wish her to prove and let them judge if she's fluent (she's probably better than the interviewer unless they're native 😂

Does she have a French or Italian passport?

Your DD sounds amazing OP...

Could definitely find a proof of address I’m sure, maybe send them my Italian passport, DHs French one, DDs French and Italian passports, birth certificate. Perhaps she should live up to some stereotypes while at it and be a little rude or excessively loud and passionate - then they might believe. I joke of course.

While I agree. We know lots of kids fluent in 3 languages (parents + English). DD2 and DS aren’t so keen on language though but they were 11 and 8 when we moved here so I think that played a part.

I google quickly DALF at the Alliance Francaise in various centres in Ireland and the closing date for the Dublin centre was yesterday (!) - it might be worth googling other European centres and seeing if they are still open to register for the November sitting.

If they accept her Spanish qualifications what's the problem? She can demonstrate how well she speaks French (and Italian) at interview or once she has the job, if she gets it. A bit irritating, but no reason not to apply, in the longer term as said above get her fluency confirmed by some external body.

From the other point of view my uncle advertised for a fluent Urdu speaker, at interview the guy was totally surprised at being expected to actually speak Urdu he didn't speak a word of it. So I sort of understand doubting people who say they can speak a language with no proof.

They have already offered the job on the condition of the proof of French. It seems they have moved the goal posts from French or Spanish, to French and Spanish. However i
appreciate the ability to do both might be what gave her the edge over other applicants so they want to know she can actually do both.

They sound like big ticking morons. We would speak to the person in the language required to figure it out. Is this the hiring manager or someone in HR?

Your daughter sounds amazing , she's going to go very far I'd go ahead and do what they want she knows she's capable and fluent but they probably have experience of the opposite with others.

This is quite normal for an international business with specific language fluency requirements - it's the whole point of the CEFR scale. Having an A-level doesn't demonstrate language proficiency.

The solution is easy, she takes the tests to demonstrate her fluency on the CEFR scale. Find a provider, book the test, take the test, get the result and a certificate. Not complicated, doesn't take long - if you're confident of your ability you don't need to take a course, just book the exam.

I did one back in 2019 when there was a strong possibility I'd need to demonstrate my language ability for residence reasons post-Brexit. Very straightforward.

Unfortunately most employers would not consider an A-Level to be evidence that someone is actually bilingual. A lot of people say they can speak an extra language but can't actually speak it to the level needed to hold a technical business discussion, so it's not unreasonable for them to ask for evidence BUT she should have a chat with the recruiter and calmly explain the situation and ask if they can accept the school's confirmation that she was educated in French, or if she can have an interview with a bilingual member of staff who can confirm her capabilities.

They have to treat each candidate the same, they can’t go on “because she has a French accent”. I know it seems crazy but if she wants the job she will have to jump through their admin hoops.

I regularly have to arrange English tests for individuals whose first language is English because the visa rules state it must be proven unless they are a citizen of a small group of recognised English speaking countries. So South Africans with perfect English have to take a test. It’s just one of those frustrating things.

I hate to disagree, but I got a C in ALevel German and I’ve lost almost all of it by now.

That's really crazy! Why don't they just get someone at the company who speaks French to phone her and have a conversation with her?