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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I didn’t leave the left. The left, left me.

1000 replies

GenerativeAIBot · 11/11/2024 14:09

Stop me if you have already heard this the last few days, I am trying to make sense of how I feel about Trump and other right leaning wins:

“Woke” issues being pushed to where they have been, has empowered the right by giving them something real and legitimate to campaign against. Something more than their usual transparently false bogeymen.

In general, Authoritarianism, compelled speech, no debate. Specifically men in women’s sports, in women’s changing rooms, unfettered immigration, being asked to ignore the evidence in front of our eyes.

This is happening across the world, Italy, France, Germany, USA, UK.

I remain entirely committed to progressive taxation, a social safety net, collective bargaining, workers rights, public schooling and health services as well as the rights of everyone to live contented, unmolested lives.

I reject identity politics in their entirety. For example, I consider terms like “Woman of colour” to be the epitome of divisive, racist, sexist thought patterns that seeks to infantilise people and move their locus of control from internal to external. Disempowering people and making them victims.

I didn’t leave the left. The left left me.

Reasonable?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
GrannyWeatherwaxsHatpin · 12/11/2024 13:50

Maybe the trans community need to do more to forge links with women's groups to combat male violence (as all groups should do imo) and to call out bad behaviour from within their ranks but equally, I think society as a whole needs to be far more accepting of trans people in general.

Nope.

There can be all the engagement you like but men can rape and attack in a way that (biological) women do not. A woman does not know who is to be trusted and who is not, so all biological men need to be kept out of women’s spaces.

I fully accept some people are trans. Identify how you like, dress how you like, call yourself what you like (although I’d prefer you didn’t propagate harmful gender stereotypes), but women’s spaces are for biological women only because in the balancing act between trans rights and women’s rights the path of least harm needs to be taken. A woman’s right to be safe from rape and those who have nefarious reasons to be in women’s spaces is more important than someone having their feelings respected.

With the right to be accepted as a trans person comes the responsibility to accept that biological sex is more important than gender identity and some spaces are just not open to you.

minionette · 12/11/2024 13:52

Honestly, with responses like this I just can't be bothered, likewise with all the posters hounding me.

Civilised countries should provide safe and legal routes for people fleeing conflict, like already happens (rightly) with people fleeing Ukraine.

And Polish people came here perfectly legally, mostly to work, when it joined the EU. There is actually a labour shortage now because of Brexit.

This thread really shows up the rising xenophobia and racism here. Pathetic, especially from a country that colonised half the world.

I'm out.

minionette · 12/11/2024 13:53

it's a fact that if you. provided safe legal routes from the whole planet to the UK we would get tens of millions and the country as it is would be wiped out.

Meaning this.

GenerativeAIBot · 12/11/2024 13:53

minionette · 12/11/2024 13:52

Honestly, with responses like this I just can't be bothered, likewise with all the posters hounding me.

Civilised countries should provide safe and legal routes for people fleeing conflict, like already happens (rightly) with people fleeing Ukraine.

And Polish people came here perfectly legally, mostly to work, when it joined the EU. There is actually a labour shortage now because of Brexit.

This thread really shows up the rising xenophobia and racism here. Pathetic, especially from a country that colonised half the world.

I'm out.

why should they?

You put no reasoning behind your arguments, you just say people should agree with you

OP posts:
GenerativeAIBot · 12/11/2024 13:54

minionette · 12/11/2024 13:53

it's a fact that if you. provided safe legal routes from the whole planet to the UK we would get tens of millions and the country as it is would be wiped out.

Meaning this.

You provide no counter arguments, no justification, no explanation at all.

Tell us.

Explain yourself

counter argue.

Perhaps even change peoples minds? Thats what I am here for

OP posts:
EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime · 12/11/2024 13:55

thepariscrimefiles · 12/11/2024 13:34

Do you believe that the 10 million people who voted Labour in 2024 were wrong?

Wrong? No, of course not.

Do I agree with their decision? No, I dont.

Do I defend their right to vote as they wish?
Emphatically, yes.

You see the difference between us, I hope.

thepariscrimefiles · 12/11/2024 13:55

username7891 · 12/11/2024 13:37

You're not allowed to think people are wrong - it's Orwellian.

That's true! She hasn't answered so maybe I should re-phrase it to ask if she thinks that the 10 million people who voted for Starmer were right!

EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime · 12/11/2024 13:56

thepariscrimefiles · 12/11/2024 13:55

That's true! She hasn't answered so maybe I should re-phrase it to ask if she thinks that the 10 million people who voted for Starmer were right!

See mine above.

I note you’ve used ‘she’.

Naughty.

username7891 · 12/11/2024 13:58

thepariscrimefiles · 12/11/2024 13:55

That's true! She hasn't answered so maybe I should re-phrase it to ask if she thinks that the 10 million people who voted for Starmer were right!

Just make sure you agree, otherwise you're a fascist.

minionette · 12/11/2024 13:58

GenerativeAIBot · 12/11/2024 13:54

You provide no counter arguments, no justification, no explanation at all.

Tell us.

Explain yourself

counter argue.

Perhaps even change peoples minds? Thats what I am here for

I don't have endless time and resources for this.

If you really can't understand why people fleeing death and persecution should be helped then I have nothing really to say to you, except maybe, as an example, to ask: do you think that people who managed to escape Nazi Germany should have been turned back?

BoredZelda · 12/11/2024 13:58

you are short sighted. That price is coming down and quickly. Generation costs are going down, not up

I work in the industry so, no, not short sighted.

The prices have been "coming down and quickly" for decades, and yet the payback period has remained largely stable since then.

Solar, ASHP, Wind generation is vital for the future of the planet, to reduce reliance on dwindling fossil fuel reserves. But the reality is, it remains out of reach for the ordinary consumer because of the upfront costs required. It is also largely pointless if we aren't properly insulating older homes to be more energy efficient. No amount of "it saves money" is going to be a selling point if the payback period remains in the 10 year+ range, when the average length of time someone owns a home is 10 years.

We need a government to put proper money in to supporting homeowners, with a scheme that can't be taken advantage of by unscrupulous suppliers and energy companies if we want to hit the targets for clean energy.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 12/11/2024 13:59

GrannyWeatherwaxsHatpin · 12/11/2024 13:50

Maybe the trans community need to do more to forge links with women's groups to combat male violence (as all groups should do imo) and to call out bad behaviour from within their ranks but equally, I think society as a whole needs to be far more accepting of trans people in general.

Nope.

There can be all the engagement you like but men can rape and attack in a way that (biological) women do not. A woman does not know who is to be trusted and who is not, so all biological men need to be kept out of women’s spaces.

I fully accept some people are trans. Identify how you like, dress how you like, call yourself what you like (although I’d prefer you didn’t propagate harmful gender stereotypes), but women’s spaces are for biological women only because in the balancing act between trans rights and women’s rights the path of least harm needs to be taken. A woman’s right to be safe from rape and those who have nefarious reasons to be in women’s spaces is more important than someone having their feelings respected.

With the right to be accepted as a trans person comes the responsibility to accept that biological sex is more important than gender identity and some spaces are just not open to you.

All of this and

With the right to be accepted as a trans person comes the responsibility to accept that biological sex is more important than gender identity and some spaces are just not open to you.

Can't be repeated enough.

thepariscrimefiles · 12/11/2024 14:00

EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime · 12/11/2024 13:55

Wrong? No, of course not.

Do I agree with their decision? No, I dont.

Do I defend their right to vote as they wish?
Emphatically, yes.

You see the difference between us, I hope.

But that's just semantics. You don't agree with their decision. I don't agree with the decision of the 72 billion people who voted for Trump. That means that I think they were wrong.

I agree with their right to vote as they wish because I believe in democracy.

There is obviously recent history in the US of an attempt to overturn the result of a free and fair election and it wasn't the people who didn't vote for Trump that did that.

GenerativeAIBot · 12/11/2024 14:00

minionette · 12/11/2024 13:58

I don't have endless time and resources for this.

If you really can't understand why people fleeing death and persecution should be helped then I have nothing really to say to you, except maybe, as an example, to ask: do you think that people who managed to escape Nazi Germany should have been turned back?

You have provided not a single reason to justify your position or persuade anyone. this is why you have been met with the comments you have.

You don't have a leg to stand on.

Unless you do, in which case tell us.

Also tell me if you've heard, Hitler is no longer in charge.

OP posts:
GenerativeAIBot · 12/11/2024 14:03

BoredZelda · 12/11/2024 13:58

you are short sighted. That price is coming down and quickly. Generation costs are going down, not up

I work in the industry so, no, not short sighted.

The prices have been "coming down and quickly" for decades, and yet the payback period has remained largely stable since then.

Solar, ASHP, Wind generation is vital for the future of the planet, to reduce reliance on dwindling fossil fuel reserves. But the reality is, it remains out of reach for the ordinary consumer because of the upfront costs required. It is also largely pointless if we aren't properly insulating older homes to be more energy efficient. No amount of "it saves money" is going to be a selling point if the payback period remains in the 10 year+ range, when the average length of time someone owns a home is 10 years.

We need a government to put proper money in to supporting homeowners, with a scheme that can't be taken advantage of by unscrupulous suppliers and energy companies if we want to hit the targets for clean energy.

The literal cost of physical panels and the actual cost of generation is going down, will never go up and is in a spiral towards zero. I believe electricity generation costs will reach zero within 15 years maximum.

You are right to say that government and business is getting in the way of this outcome. Vested interests, keeping profits going for as long as possible

OP posts:
minionette · 12/11/2024 14:03

GenerativeAIBot · 12/11/2024 14:00

You have provided not a single reason to justify your position or persuade anyone. this is why you have been met with the comments you have.

You don't have a leg to stand on.

Unless you do, in which case tell us.

Also tell me if you've heard, Hitler is no longer in charge.

Get me deleted if you like but honestly OP, you're crazy.

GenerativeAIBot · 12/11/2024 14:04

minionette · 12/11/2024 14:03

Get me deleted if you like but honestly OP, you're crazy.

Again, you provide no reasoning, no counter argument. It's frighteningly simplistic thinking - we should all agree because you said so?

OP posts:
username7891 · 12/11/2024 14:06

minionette · 12/11/2024 14:03

Get me deleted if you like but honestly OP, you're crazy.

I agree with the OP and am not crazy. I don't think additional routes would be helpful. First, too many people would apply for asylum which could potentially be destabilising and secondly, it won't stop the boats because they'll try to come here anyway.

Many rip up their ID before entering the country and it's impossible to send people back. We can't open the border to millions of asylum seekers.

vivainsomnia · 12/11/2024 14:07

This wilful 'it's a not problem for me' and deciding it's not a big problem for anyone else - on their behalf - is what the problem is
The beauty of words...so remove from any reality, wherever you place yourself on the spectrum....

Because in the end, people are willing to make things good for others, but really only if they themselves have it good, preferably first.

Very very few people, nowadays, are prepared to give what means a lot to them for the benefit of society as a whole.

GenerativeAIBot · 12/11/2024 14:08

GenerativeAIBot · 11/11/2024 14:09

Stop me if you have already heard this the last few days, I am trying to make sense of how I feel about Trump and other right leaning wins:

“Woke” issues being pushed to where they have been, has empowered the right by giving them something real and legitimate to campaign against. Something more than their usual transparently false bogeymen.

In general, Authoritarianism, compelled speech, no debate. Specifically men in women’s sports, in women’s changing rooms, unfettered immigration, being asked to ignore the evidence in front of our eyes.

This is happening across the world, Italy, France, Germany, USA, UK.

I remain entirely committed to progressive taxation, a social safety net, collective bargaining, workers rights, public schooling and health services as well as the rights of everyone to live contented, unmolested lives.

I reject identity politics in their entirety. For example, I consider terms like “Woman of colour” to be the epitome of divisive, racist, sexist thought patterns that seeks to infantilise people and move their locus of control from internal to external. Disempowering people and making them victims.

I didn’t leave the left. The left left me.

Reasonable?

"One of the mysteries of this election is how the Democrats approached polling day with a set of policies on gender identity that they were neither proud to champion—nor prepared to disown."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/11/democrats-dishonest-

gender-conversation-2024-election/680604/

The Democrats Need an Honest Conversation on Gender Identity

The party went into an election with policies it couldn’t defend—or even explain.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/11/democrats-dishonest-gender-conversation-2024-election/680604

OP posts:
GenerativeAIBot · 12/11/2024 14:09

GenerativeAIBot · 11/11/2024 14:09

Stop me if you have already heard this the last few days, I am trying to make sense of how I feel about Trump and other right leaning wins:

“Woke” issues being pushed to where they have been, has empowered the right by giving them something real and legitimate to campaign against. Something more than their usual transparently false bogeymen.

In general, Authoritarianism, compelled speech, no debate. Specifically men in women’s sports, in women’s changing rooms, unfettered immigration, being asked to ignore the evidence in front of our eyes.

This is happening across the world, Italy, France, Germany, USA, UK.

I remain entirely committed to progressive taxation, a social safety net, collective bargaining, workers rights, public schooling and health services as well as the rights of everyone to live contented, unmolested lives.

I reject identity politics in their entirety. For example, I consider terms like “Woman of colour” to be the epitome of divisive, racist, sexist thought patterns that seeks to infantilise people and move their locus of control from internal to external. Disempowering people and making them victims.

I didn’t leave the left. The left left me.

Reasonable?

"Labour must learn from Kamala Harris’s transgender muddle"

https://archive.ph/cX1XP

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 12/11/2024 14:11

minionette · 12/11/2024 14:03

Get me deleted if you like but honestly OP, you're crazy.

No one is 'hounding' or 'goading' you

It's that your suggestions are not realistic

BoredZelda · 12/11/2024 14:12

How strong is it? I didn’t hear her biological sex being an issue

Yeah, it isn't something that's going to be front and centre of the opposing campaign. You'd have to live under a rock, though, if you haven't been aware of it. The noise was particularly loud when Clinton was running, and it raised its head again during the democratic primaries in 2020 she Warren put it front and centre. This time round, though, the campaign realised that going after Harris for her race or her sex was not going to work for them. That doesn't mean it didn't have an impact on some who voted for her.

IMO Harris NOT a good candidate for many many reasons …. That have nothing to do with her pronouns.

Go on then, what are they?

EuclidianGeometryFan · 12/11/2024 14:13

GenerativeAIBot · 12/11/2024 14:03

The literal cost of physical panels and the actual cost of generation is going down, will never go up and is in a spiral towards zero. I believe electricity generation costs will reach zero within 15 years maximum.

You are right to say that government and business is getting in the way of this outcome. Vested interests, keeping profits going for as long as possible

Impossible.
Presumably you think that solar panels will be manufactured using other solar panels.
Not going to happen. Physically impossible.

Besides which, electricity "too cheap to meter" will not solve the issue, because transport still needs fossil fuels. There is no big electric truck taking stuff around the motorways. Trucks run on diesel.

GenerativeAIBot · 12/11/2024 14:16

EuclidianGeometryFan · 12/11/2024 14:13

Impossible.
Presumably you think that solar panels will be manufactured using other solar panels.
Not going to happen. Physically impossible.

Besides which, electricity "too cheap to meter" will not solve the issue, because transport still needs fossil fuels. There is no big electric truck taking stuff around the motorways. Trucks run on diesel.

We are heading rapidly towards either mad max or a post scarcity socialist utopia. I suspect the latter.

OP posts:
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