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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I didn’t leave the left. The left, left me.

1000 replies

GenerativeAIBot · 11/11/2024 14:09

Stop me if you have already heard this the last few days, I am trying to make sense of how I feel about Trump and other right leaning wins:

“Woke” issues being pushed to where they have been, has empowered the right by giving them something real and legitimate to campaign against. Something more than their usual transparently false bogeymen.

In general, Authoritarianism, compelled speech, no debate. Specifically men in women’s sports, in women’s changing rooms, unfettered immigration, being asked to ignore the evidence in front of our eyes.

This is happening across the world, Italy, France, Germany, USA, UK.

I remain entirely committed to progressive taxation, a social safety net, collective bargaining, workers rights, public schooling and health services as well as the rights of everyone to live contented, unmolested lives.

I reject identity politics in their entirety. For example, I consider terms like “Woman of colour” to be the epitome of divisive, racist, sexist thought patterns that seeks to infantilise people and move their locus of control from internal to external. Disempowering people and making them victims.

I didn’t leave the left. The left left me.

Reasonable?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
username7891 · 11/11/2024 20:23

EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime · 11/11/2024 20:21

Your last paragraph - I am inclined to agree with you.

The judiciary has moved to the left too.

Seems like everything moved to the left under the Tories. It's not that the Tories severely under invested and mismanaged the country, it's because they moved to the left.

Shakeoffyourchains · 11/11/2024 20:26

EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime · 11/11/2024 19:51

You seem to be pretty good at making sweeping generalisations.

If you think that unchecked unskilled immigration is not an issue, then your party will soon be out of power - probably for another 14 years plus. Wake up and smell the hummus.

I repeat, nobody decent wants harm caused to refugees - this is a problem for the west. You would not go to the outskirts of Paris, nor Malmo - trust me.

Edited

What unchecked, unskilled migration?

The vast, vast majority of migrants are here legally with the full approval of the UK government. Are the right finally admitting that the Tories, despite their rhetoric, lied to everyone for almost a decade?

EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime · 11/11/2024 20:27

Right, signing off with this -

Left-wing conspiracy theorists have claimed the 2024 US presidential election was “stolen”, with posts on social media falsely alleging Elon Musk’s Starlink satellite network was used to manipulate the result.…

Night, night!

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:27

username7891 · 11/11/2024 20:22

I'm not talking about gender ideology. Seems like some people's brains simply can't encompass more than one subject.

I was responding to a comment made about foreigners attacking women.

I know what you were responding to. You seemed to imply posters don’t realise men in the UK are abusers too. Gender Ideology plays a part in the trampling of women’s rights. From men, ‘foreign’ or otherwise. They all link. It's already been brought up on this thread and I’m reverting back to it.

Littlemissgobby · 11/11/2024 20:30

EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime · 11/11/2024 20:27

Right, signing off with this -

Left-wing conspiracy theorists have claimed the 2024 US presidential election was “stolen”, with posts on social media falsely alleging Elon Musk’s Starlink satellite network was used to manipulate the result.…

Night, night!

Yes and donald trump was claiming to last week that he won the 2020 election and he believes in the votes this time round funny that when it was announced he won what a sore loser. So you have no leg to stand on abiut conspiracy theories your side has many

username7891 · 11/11/2024 20:31

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:27

I know what you were responding to. You seemed to imply posters don’t realise men in the UK are abusers too. Gender Ideology plays a part in the trampling of women’s rights. From men, ‘foreign’ or otherwise. They all link. It's already been brought up on this thread and I’m reverting back to it.

Edited

If you know what I'm referring to, then why are you responding with an entirely different subject matter that had nothing to do with the post?

The post was talking about immigration and foreign men being a danger to women.

Lovelyview · 11/11/2024 20:34

Smineusername · 11/11/2024 20:03

You were never on the left. The things you describe are social Democrat centrism - the left wants systemic change, an end to capitalism. So the left hasn't moved you've just never been a part of it. You're scratching your head now because social Democrat centrism is now being rejected by a class who recognise that centrist policies have failed and will always fail to deliver the systemic change that justice would require. Unfortunately that vote is being hoovered up by the far right who provide convenient bogey men to explain the palpable lack of social justice. This always happens when the gap between rich and poor grows too wide. It's very predictable and easy to understand. The left are always at a disadvantage because their opposition to capital makes them the enemies of vested interests and as a result they are always slandered and attacked by mainstream media. See the way Corby was vilified as some kind of nutbar despite being a fundamentally decent and principled human being. By the same press who found Boris Johnson a respectable candidate. The left are also always at a disadvantage because they favour freedom of expression and reject authoritarianism, so it is harder to agree a coherent agenda. And the cycle of electoral politics and lesser evilism saps our scarce resources and our spirit systematically for no gains. It would have been better to put our money and energy into grassroots community activism than trying and failing to prop up a US Democratic party who palpably despise the working class. And the genocide in Gaza was something that many voters were rightly unwilling to turn a blind eye to. This is going to keep happening and keep getting worse until we figure out a way out of capitalism

There are people on the far left who might want an end to capitalism but that's not what we're talking about. None of the previous UK governments wanted to end capitalism. They just wanted to use capital to improve the lives of working people. This was tied to improving women's rights with legislation such as The Equal Pay Act (1970). That's the left who have left us.

lollylo · 11/11/2024 20:35
Happy Birthday GIF by Jelene

Identity politics in its current incarnation is at least 70 years old now! Hippies in 60s/70s, then politically correct in the 80s/90s, now it’s the woke. Seems to have developed in the west with the civil rights era and the liberal and economic freedom gained in the west post ww2 and as the population became more educated. It always came with a good dose of purity spirals and the risk of factionalism and infighting. I am left if centre by the way. Just pointing out that its really, really not a new phenomenon.

Edit - no idea why there is a giphy in my post 🤣

BunfightBetty · 11/11/2024 20:35

Smineusername · 11/11/2024 20:03

You were never on the left. The things you describe are social Democrat centrism - the left wants systemic change, an end to capitalism. So the left hasn't moved you've just never been a part of it. You're scratching your head now because social Democrat centrism is now being rejected by a class who recognise that centrist policies have failed and will always fail to deliver the systemic change that justice would require. Unfortunately that vote is being hoovered up by the far right who provide convenient bogey men to explain the palpable lack of social justice. This always happens when the gap between rich and poor grows too wide. It's very predictable and easy to understand. The left are always at a disadvantage because their opposition to capital makes them the enemies of vested interests and as a result they are always slandered and attacked by mainstream media. See the way Corby was vilified as some kind of nutbar despite being a fundamentally decent and principled human being. By the same press who found Boris Johnson a respectable candidate. The left are also always at a disadvantage because they favour freedom of expression and reject authoritarianism, so it is harder to agree a coherent agenda. And the cycle of electoral politics and lesser evilism saps our scarce resources and our spirit systematically for no gains. It would have been better to put our money and energy into grassroots community activism than trying and failing to prop up a US Democratic party who palpably despise the working class. And the genocide in Gaza was something that many voters were rightly unwilling to turn a blind eye to. This is going to keep happening and keep getting worse until we figure out a way out of capitalism

You think Corbyn is a ‘fundamentally decent and principled human being’??

The man’s a disgusting anti-Semite. You view racism as ‘decent and principled’ if you like, but I beg to differ.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:36

username7891 · 11/11/2024 20:31

If you know what I'm referring to, then why are you responding with an entirely different subject matter that had nothing to do with the post?

The post was talking about immigration and foreign men being a danger to women.

Danger to women - that’s what I’m referring to, from the point of the Left. Like I just said in my post you’ve just quoted. It’s not an entirely different subject matter. All are linked.

username7891 · 11/11/2024 20:38

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:36

Danger to women - that’s what I’m referring to, from the point of the Left. Like I just said in my post you’ve just quoted. It’s not an entirely different subject matter. All are linked.

Sure.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:40

username7891 · 11/11/2024 20:38

Sure.

👍

Littlemissgobby · 11/11/2024 20:45

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:40

👍

Danger to women yiu say , do uou support trump? His civil case where he had hurt carol potentially raped her. That ok because he's not a migrant. I also find it stunning how many of these right wing influence men on the Internet are dangerous to women but nothing from your side who bloody like them.
Yes some migrants have disgusting attitudes to women and we must show them that's wrong. However there's alot of English men that beat their wives up to

Tandora · 11/11/2024 20:46

Seasmoke · 11/11/2024 19:44

which depends on strict binary gender roles), so you really, really dislike the idea that we should recognise, accept and integrate trans people into society.
Trans is nothing but reinforcement of 'strict binary gender roles' Girls can't just be girls who don't like playing with dolls, they must be trans. Men like dressing up in women's clothes. They can't be men who like dressing up in women's clothes. They must be women. If you don't want strict binary gender roles, then accept that sex is binary and gender is a separate social construct. The ultimate patriarchy is when men take over womanhood, female spaces and female achievements and make them their own. When they deny women their rights and patronisingly tell them they aren't doing womanhood right and they should accept what men want just because those men apparently know what it is to be a woman.
The problem with people on the Left ( and I don't include the government which is pretty centrist) but the Hard Left is that the prople they harm are the vulnerable but they just can't see it or just don't care. Rape and sexual assault victims, women from religious communities who are socially isolated anyway. People who have to compete for jobs when employers would rather hire from abroad than invest in staff training. People smuggled into the UK to work in prostitution. People who have to live alongside drug dealers who destroy their neighbourhoods yet they want to defend the police. None of these things affect many on the Hard Left, who are overwhelmingly White, middle class liberals. They have more in common with Prince William than someone who lives on an estate in Bolton.

Being trans is not about toys or clothes.

the rage against trans people is absolutely about trying to reinforce binary gender roles.

Anyway… there are a million threads on this. Back to Trump…

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:47

Littlemissgobby · 11/11/2024 20:45

Danger to women yiu say , do uou support trump? His civil case where he had hurt carol potentially raped her. That ok because he's not a migrant. I also find it stunning how many of these right wing influence men on the Internet are dangerous to women but nothing from your side who bloody like them.
Yes some migrants have disgusting attitudes to women and we must show them that's wrong. However there's alot of English men that beat their wives up to

🤯

To answer the small part of that ramble I did understand, no, not a Trump supporter.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:50

Tandora · 11/11/2024 20:46

Being trans is not about toys or clothes.

the rage against trans people is absolutely about trying to reinforce binary gender roles.

Anyway… there are a million threads on this. Back to Trump…

Edited

Yeah which you’ve constantly derailed with your nonsense and you get your arse handed to you every time where you try and re-write biology and ‘make things up’ (how apt) so I won’t bother.

Tandora · 11/11/2024 20:51

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:13

Well obviously. Hence why many, many, women - who recognise that males as a sex class are problematic, especially when it comes to sexual and violent crime - have been fighting to acknowledge that sex is important and biology matters. Despite many on here trying to frame it as ‘hating trans people’ that they don’t want them to exist, and that TWAW and anyone who says otherwise is a big Far Right aligning, transphobic, Trump supporting bigot. They aren’t, they’re men and they don’t belong in women’s spaces and sports no matter how they identify.

You do also realise that you can care about ‘home grown’ abusers and acknowledge the problem of males who come from other cultures that have even more problematic views concerning women and their roles?

That’s right, Woman Brain can actually care about more than one issue, at the same time! Wowzers.

Please for the love of god stop naturalising sexual violence.
Sexual and gender based violence is rooted in patriarchy.

The railing against trans rights has nothing to do with sexual violence and everything to do with transphobia.

Tandora · 11/11/2024 20:54

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:50

Yeah which you’ve constantly derailed with your nonsense and you get your arse handed to you every time where you try and re-write biology and ‘make things up’ (how apt) so I won’t bother.

you mean when I offer factual and accurate information about biology, sex, gender and healthcare, and it makes transphobic people really angry 👍🏻

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:55

Tandora · 11/11/2024 20:51

Please for the love of god stop naturalising sexual violence.
Sexual and gender based violence is rooted in patriarchy.

The railing against trans rights has nothing to do with sexual violence and everything to do with transphobia.

Hmm is that what you took from that? For the love of God stop making things up.

Everything to do with males. Sexual violence is perpetrated mainly by males. No matter what their inner feelings are or what costume they put on that thinks makes them a woman. Men. That’s why transmen are hardly mentioned.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:56

Tandora · 11/11/2024 20:54

you mean when I offer factual and accurate information about biology, sex, gender and healthcare, and it makes transphobic people really angry 👍🏻

Edited

If that’s what you think you offer then that’s a delusional ‘you’ problem. I can’t help you there.

GoForARun · 11/11/2024 20:57

Completely agree.

ByMerryKoala · 11/11/2024 20:58

More voices from the left winning hearts and minds one insult at a time again?

Lovelyview · 11/11/2024 20:59

Tandora · 11/11/2024 20:46

Being trans is not about toys or clothes.

the rage against trans people is absolutely about trying to reinforce binary gender roles.

Anyway… there are a million threads on this. Back to Trump…

Edited

One of the reasons Trump got in was because the democrats left an open goal when they changed sex to gender in title IX opening the door for the many stories about boys and men taking girls and women's places on teams and taking their prizes and sports scholarships as well as creating safeguarding issues in changing rooms and when staying away from home in shared accommodation. There was a swing to Trump on issues like this because the Democrats weren't talking about what they had done whereas Trump ran a highly successful ad campaign. People on the left care about fairness and taking away girls and women's opportunities is not fair.

Tandora · 11/11/2024 21:06

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 20:55

Hmm is that what you took from that? For the love of God stop making things up.

Everything to do with males. Sexual violence is perpetrated mainly by males. No matter what their inner feelings are or what costume they put on that thinks makes them a woman. Men. That’s why transmen are hardly mentioned.

Sexual violence is overwhelmingly perpetrated by men because of patriarchy.

Men don’t rape women because of biology; rape is rooted in power and violence, not sex.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 11/11/2024 21:08

Tandora · 11/11/2024 21:06

Sexual violence is overwhelmingly perpetrated by men because of patriarchy.

Men don’t rape women because of biology; rape is rooted in power and violence, not sex.

I’m glad you’ve acknowledged the problem is males. Hence the need for sex based spaces.

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