To show DH's friend and friend's new woman what I think of them?

[Anonycat]

My DH has a hobby that I don’t share, which is fine. His hobby friends, male and female, form quite a big part of our socialising, with partners. I do often find this quite tedious as they tend to talk obsessively about the hobby, but DH enjoys it and I formed a good relationship with another "hobby widow", a woman a bit older than me (in her 50s) and we always got together at social events to chat about other stuff.

This woman, Anna, and her partner Bill were very kind to another woman I didn’t previously know, Claire, who was in an abusive relationship. Anna and Bill helped Claire leave her abusive husband and let her stay with them for a couple of months while she sorted out a new home for herself. Then Claire left for this new home - and Bill went with her. This came as a complete bombshell to Anna, who was devastated and said she had had no suspicion anything was going on.

Anna and Bill had been together for about 15 years. They had no children together but Bill had a child from a previous relationship. In the early years Anna had given Bill money to support this child, then a teenager, and recently gave a lot of support to the young man and his wife with newborn twins.

I think both Bill and Claire have treated Anna appallingly. I appreciate that no-one really knows what goes on in other people's relationships, and perhaps it was right for them to split up, but I feel strongly about the way it was done.

My problem is that Bill now brings Claire to all the social events to which Anna previously came, as if he has just done a swap, and she chats and laughs as if she hasn’t a care in the world, and expects me to respond likewise. Bill knows how I feel because he asked my DH if DH and I would like to go round for a meal with them and DH told him he knew I wouldn't do that. So far I have just avoided Claire and Bill as much as I can, and been polite but distant, and said as little as possible, but this is getting increasingly difficult to sustain. DH agrees that they treated Anna very badly but just wants to let it go, and carry on as before. He wants me to keep going to the events with him but says my coldness is noticeable and embarrasses him and is getting ridiculous. But even being coldly polite to them makes me feel disloyal to Anna (who I still meet occasionally, and who is still very unhappy).

What should I do?
YABU - these things happen, move on and stop giving Bill and Claire a hard time.
YANBU - in solidarity with Anna you should stop going to the social events or continue barely speaking to Bill and Claire. If they or your DH don’t like it, tough.

Of more people made it clear that it's socially unacceptable to behave in this way maybe fewer people would. Brushing over it lets people off the hook.

Ah yes a sample size of 1600, from a survey done a decade ago of Sun readers. Perfectly legitimate source with a wide and cross ranging sample.

In any case if you read my previous post I acknowledged that usually I would stay out of it BUT this isn't just "an affair" - your own "data" said that that could mean anything from just kissing to full sex, could be a couple who have only been together a few weeks etc. This is a couple who have been together years, and where Anna welcomed the "other woman" into their house and they conducted their affair not just behind her back but in her own house. It's a betrayal that goes far beyond a normal affair.

Tbh id still judge any of those 20% of people because any affair is unnecessary - just split up with someone if you're unhappy. But I maintain that conducting an affair in those circumstances is particularly despicable and, yes, indicative of a very unpleasant character (of both parties)

I would reduce the times I went to the social events and, assuming you are still friends with Anna, arrange to spend that time with her.

When I did go to the social events I would follow the polite but aloof route.

I’m only reflecting the hyperbole regularly visited on affair-havers on here. I personally think far worse things are viewed as entirely normal in a marriage on Mn.

My point is only that affairs are pretty common. They’re not engaged in by some separate subclass of Bad People. Human relationships are imperfect and messy. And while women continue to be disproportionately economically dependent on a relationship that requires two people to continue to want to have sex with one another , they will continue to be devastating.

@Getamoveon2024 has just clearly stated that she did not say that Claire was responsible for Bill's actions or Bill's marriage. Yet you have just twisted that to say:

It is extremely repressive, misogynistic and sexist to say women are responsible for men's actions. It's the very cornerstone of misogyny. But I know you won't accept that.

Claire was not responsible for Bill's actions but she was responsible for her own and she clearly shat upon the kindness of Anna who had welcomed her into her own home.

You seem like a great friend. I'd feel the same. It's just brushing their vile behaviour under the carpet. I'd keep ignoring them. If it's uncomfortable they THEY Should leave the group not you.

Yep agreed!

I have never entirely bought into the 'everyone does it so that makes it OK' argument.

'Everyone is at it' is no reason for the OP to compromise her ethics and values for the supposed peace of mind of two people who don't give a flying fig about her, her DH, or her poor friend - because if they had cared, they wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

This word salad makes absolutely no sense

This! ⬆️ I'd feel the same as you - I'd never be able to let that shit go!

Responses to these threads are always quite telling of personality types.

Typically, I think people who respond along the lines of “oh you never know what’s happening in someone else’s relationship / it’s none of your business etc” are the sort who prioritise an easy life over the challenge of following a moral compass.

Good on you for sticking with your principles OP.

My point is only that affairs are pretty common. They’re not engaged in by some separate subclass of Bad People

They are common because a certain type of person has affairs. Thankfully that's not most people. They might not be "bad people" but they are individuals who damage other people. It is usually ego, neediness and entitlement in people that have affairs.

Op, you shouldn't be forced to be friends with people who you don't respect. Polite indifference should be tolerated by your DH. I respect that you have values and loyalty and it's a shame your DH and rest of the group isn't on the same page.

Genuine question: do you know the intimate details of all the relationships your friends have ever had? I ask because it’s likely that the only difference between Anna and Bill and some of your other friends is that you know what happened.

I’m not defending or excusing what they did or suggestion you should hang out the bunting in congratulations, but honestly either cut all ties and avoid them completely or accept that they made choices you wouldn’t have made and move on.

You seem to be conflating something being common with it being acceptable. Cheating on a partner is immoral; it also happens a lot. The fact that someone has an affair automatically means that they are not a 'perfectly nice person'. The statistics that it happens a lot doesn't make them morally any better (or worse). There is a link between actions and morality, not between the percentage of people committing a certain action and morality. At least in this case.

You’re doing well to be polite. I’d completely blank the pair of em, horrible people whom you should feel no shame shaming.

I would tell DH that if he has a problem with your manners you just won't go any more. You said you find the events tedious anyway and it sounds like they are now uncomfortable for you.

With friends like Claire, who needs enemies.

Well done OP for having compassion, and a moral compass. Bill has seen that his actions do not sit well with others. Good. He needs to know that he’s a piece of scum.

I hope they both end up miserable.

I wouldn't want to be friends with someone like Claire, no. I'd respond in the same way as you.

Hang on, he has a (albeit now adult) child from a previous relationship...how do u know that "Anna" wasn't previously the other woman? Maybe it's karma?

Some people leave good relationships all the time to get their end away- sad but true.

I suspect the fact that OP's DH desires her to speak to them means he wouldn't be satisfied with her not attending at all.
'Hey OP's DH, where's your wife today?'
'Why has she stopped coming?'
'Is everything OK?' etc. Far more embarrassing for him to explain away everytime when OP was a fixture and fitting before. He won't like the awkwardness that comes with that either so will still expect OP to put up and shut up. Personally I think the only way to handle it is to carry on as you were OP. You aren't being outright rude and you aren't comprising yourself either. Why on earth should you?

Sounds like youre bored of these hobby meet ups so take this opportunity to get out of them completely. Find your own hobby!

On the fence with this one. On one hand its none of your business but on the other hand DH saying you should be nicer to people you clearly dislike just because he likes them is unreasonable.

I know, this is hilarious.

Apparently there's a CSA offender on nearly every street (according to a police woman who posted here) .... So it's extremely common.
How come the rationale above doesn't apply to CSA or viewing images of CSA??

Asking if we seriously think one fifth of people are scum bags? Yes! Absolutely.
I wouldn't put one fifth of people as self serving, using, scum bags; I'd put a lot more than that.

There are lots and lots and lots of sociopathic, personality disordered etc. people out there. Just because their behaviour - in having e.g. affairs, benefit fraud, minor criminality, using prostitutes (a male only one mostly), lending money they never pay back, exploiting the elderly or infirm or not of sound mind for money etc., abusing kids, bullying people in work & social situations, emotionally abusing & coercively controlling partners, sexually assaulting people (almost entirely men) etc. etc etc.

They're all common behaviours.

That has absolutely no bearing on the immorality of those behaviours. They're not any less immoral just because they're common!!

You don't judge those people less just because immorality, deception, exploitation etc. is common among humans.

How could anyone even begin to think that way.

I think it's very significant that Anna's ex lent money off her, took support off her, let her support his kids & Grandkids, encouraged her to let this woman move into her home (who knew her first? Who knew her best? Whose idea mostly was her moving in with them? You have to wonder when the affair started).

She's a giver and he's a taker/user.

His all round character is obvious. Unfortunately Anna, as too nice a person, didn't see it

Also, people saying 'anyone who's unhappy has a right to leave a relationship".

How do you know this dude was unhappy in his relationship before he met Ms poor domestic violence victim who hooks up with other people's partners beneath their nose, in their home??

Is he was so unhappy, why did he stay up to that point ....letting his partner support and invest in his kids & grandkids??

You're not seriously naive enough to believe that everyone who cheats and leaves a partner is "unhappy", are you?!

That suggests a real lack of understanding of human nature.
Some people leave for what they perceive to be a better deal, that is all.
Some people have their heads turned.
Some people settle (in fact lots of people) until something "better" comes along. For a lot of men, that's s
Just someone they fancy more. Maybe someone younger.

They're not unhappy and there's nothing wrong with the relationship. They just wanted the advantages of having a partner but weren't committed to them/invested in them and they are immoral ...So they're ok with using someone like that and they're ok with discarding them when they are no longer of use (because they have another source of attention, support, company, sex, cost sharing etc.).