Would you make space for a family with a disabled child on a train?

[UnbeatenMum]

AIBU to think that most people would see a disability pushchair with a child who is around 6-7 and realise the child is disabled? So if they don't make space for you on a train it's not because they haven't realised? We travelled on several trains during half term and our experience was quite mixed. Ended up with his pushchair half blocking the aisle on two occasions because no one moved for us (in the wheelchair section, all non-wheelchair users or their suitcases or baggage taking up the space). My son was fine but I had to sit on the floor and then get him off the train without help because the rest of the family had walked up the train to find seats. AIBU or would I have had a better experience if he had a wheelchair? I should say a couple of people did offer us a seat but overall it wasn't great.

I would ask people to move luggage and would always book tickets if poss, even for short journeys

It's not a normal pushchair, probably the newer version of the blue and white striped one, and he's about 4ft tall which is why I thought it would be reasonably obvious. And I absolutely wouldn't want anyone who needed the seat more than me to give it up, but there were seats in other carriages and the pushchair was blocking the gangway.

Booking tickets doesn't automatically give you a seat

This is one of the reasons I learnt to drive, I was heavily pregnant and my daughter in her wheelchair and my mum with me, who was bald from chemo and obviously frail, no one let us sit down, the train guard ended up telling people to move so my mum could at least sit down, whilst I stood in the bit by the doors with my daughter in her wheelchair. I’m not sure if people are oblivious or don’t care to be honest

That's good to hear as DS should be getting a wheelchair later this year. I probably do need to get better at advocating too though.

I am disabled and use a wheelchair.

When I travel on trains I book assistance because they make everyone move their luggage.

(I do also feel for the people with luggage - UK trains are so shit for having somewhere to put your luggage).

If you book a ticket online and request assistance they will mostly make you reserve the disabled space - it's actually a "seat" you can reserve. If you buy in person they'll generally do this as well whether you have assistance or not.

If you are travelling in a big group and have not reserved any seats at all then if someone has reserved the wheelchair space and is in a wheelchair you can't use it (obviously) although they will try to squeeze everyone in. (Had this when the east coast main line went down and we were all diverted via the midland main line).

If the wheelchair space isn't reserved and you use it for your child that's fine but you won't necessarily be able to seat the rest of your group near them and most people won't move (and shouldn't have to if they have reserved seats).

TLDR: book assistance and reserve seats.

A friend of ours had to travel by train and tube with crutches for a while. He was always offered a seat on the tube but never on the train.

I would reserve a seat where possible

I’m amazed! Why not?

And what if they said they had a broken leg (which is what I said to people)?

Passenger assistance is a game changer, although it does restrict your flexibility a bit. I have seen so many examples of people and employees not enforcing that wheelchair spaces should be kept clear of luggage, that I would book the PA just for this purpose.

Tbh I'd realise and offer of I could, but only because I have a disabled child and would understand there was a reason why he was in a buggy.

Otoh might be worth considering a wheelchair when he next needs a change due to growing. Just a thought. They are usually better for fitting in to the spaces on public transport.

Given the age and size of your son, I probably would have thought it was most likely a disability pushchair but I might not have had the confidence to assume and offer you a seat in case he was 'just' an older child in a pushchair and you kicked off at me for being rude (absolutely not saying you would have done that but I'm a paranoid overthinker and would panic about offending you and getting yelled at).

I'm also massively unobservant to the point that I did not know that there were wheelchair spaces on trains. I know there are disabled priority seats, obviously, and I wouldn't sit in those without keeping a close eye out for people who might need them. But I've never noticed a wheelchair space and might well have put a large suitcase in one in the past. I will keep an eye out for them in future, definitely!

In general though, I think it's best to ask for what you need. In an ideal world you wouldn't to but there are many reasons, including lack of observation skills and social awkwardness, that stop people being proactive in helping you. But, if asked, most people will do the right thing.

"Aside, would it not be better to fold the pushchair and get a seat in the carriage if your DC can walk? It might not be just wondered"

I think the OP will have thought that through already.

People don't even notice an actual wheelchair in my experience. I get so fed up of people just stepping in front of us that I no longer slow down or change trajectory, which a woman discovered last week when she stepped right in front of us in a shopping centre and then milliseconds later felt the footplates crunch into her ankles, at speed.

In terms of needing space, you just have to ask directly as people are so selfish these days.

I've had similar issues so ordered a tag for the buggy that says "please treat as wheelchair". Might be worth getting!
Although some people are just d1cks 🤷🏼‍♀️

I don't think I would know you needed anything if you had a space for the pushchair and to stand with it, even if I realised it was for a disabled child. I wouldn't offer my seat because then you wouldn't be with your child, and I might assume your child was safer in the pushchair iyswim? So I wouldn't know you wanted to stand in the wheelchair space unless you told me.

I’m sorry people have bad experiences and I don’t know if old age helps but myself and husband 69/77 are nearly always offered seats on the tube we reserve where possible but often offered seats on trains as well plus people help me off with luggage and give a hand where the platform is a long way down. It warms my heart that so many people of all sorts are so kind.

In first class on the trains I use, there is no luggage space ie no racks. So it is the same space, and even a small overnight case doesn't fit into the overhead racks.

I have had people with buggies jump in front of me to get their toddler buggy in the wheelchair space when my was 8 or 9 and in a disability buggy. Some people are arseholes. Most though just don't notice what is going on and will just need asking.

I always ask for assistance getting on and off the train. Yes, in theory my daughter could walk it, but chances are the steps are too big and she'd ask to be carried. Then I couldn't put her down whilst I get the buggy off. So I ask for the assistance and they use the ramp.

I don't think a lot of people realise how heavy the specialist buggies are! My dd's is 15kg plus her weight, so too much to carry. And the steps are often too high to safely bump it.

It's really hard to do, but I would usually ask people to give up seats if we need to.

I think sometimes people are oblivious and sometimes it's not overtly clear to the untrained eye that a pushchair is a disability pushchair. And size of child is no indicator - I know several 6-7 year olds who are often in a buggy without additional needs, as the parents sadly find it easier to keep them confined and glued to a tablet. Luggage on UK trains is a total mission - there is very little space and often I end up sitting far away from my case so don't know if it needs moving. I also get immersed in a book and tend to wear headphones on trains. I would move for a disabled person if I was aware that they were so. But you can't rely on people noticing - if you need something, you have to make it clear. If you can't, then passenger assistance will do it for you if you book it.

Hang on- Your family left you with a disabled child? To get him on and off the train yourself?

I’d be fucking fuming.

if it was a long journey I’d expect them to at least help you find a space- quieter carriage, get a guard etc, or take it in turns to sit with him.

at the very least they should have got off their arses and come back to help you get him off the train.

it’s probably worth looking at first class in future- you can often upgrade on the train for about £7

I would but people can be really selfish on public transport. There was a bloke who got on a train once on crutches who had one leg. I looked around hoping someone would offer him a seat. I was about 36 weeks pregnant so not really up to standing the 4 hours home. No one did. I stood and offered him mine but he clocked the bump and said no and went up the train. The people in the priority seating for disabled never looked up.

That's a wheelchair space in front of the toilet door? Strange - according to every cunt in the last six months, it's a designated space for suitcases the size of a small family car or pushbikes, just as the aisles and the vestibules are, going by the ones I have to clamber past to get on and off.

The bloke in the accessible seat facing his bike in the wheelchair space that I fell onto when the train went over some points recently was most displeased that I hadn't disappeared in a puff of smoke when he ignored my request to be able to sit down.

I have noticed that I'm far more likely to be offered a seat on the Tube than trains, though. Maybe it's a reward for having made it through and down to the platform in the first place?

@Lemonmiracle that's a horrendous.

I think it's different situations. People are just selfish - I have no time for people who leave their luggage on seats when there are others standing. You do need to ask them to move their stuff and accept that sometimes people are utter dicks. Possession is nine tenths of the law and I've admired a lady doing a very deft swiping the hogger's bag out of the way and getting her bottom on the seat in a split second, with a swift "you won't mind if I move your bag". I don't think I'd have the guts though, some people could get nasty especially these days.

I have more sympathy for someone with a massive suitcase on an overcrowded train. Sometimes there is just not much they can do, it's not easy for them plus their stuff to relocate on a crowded train. I'm not amazed they are not leaping to give up their seats to you as an ostensibly able bodied carer. I've sat my kids on the floor many a time but usually stand myself if there are no seats. Or even wait for the next train if tickets allow. That's one thing I learned from commuting - at some stations like London termini it's often worth waiting for the next train, and being first onto that to grab a seat.