Childcare costs

[LawyerMumAsia]

Good morning. My childcare costs are through the roof. Can somebody please tell me if this is normal. We are two full time working parents with two primary aged children and one toddler. Nursery is £1700 per month and nanny is £3,300 per month including taxes for 36 hours a week. Nursery is 4 days per week but we will be reducing that to 3 days in a few weeks time. We need 36 hours because of school drop off and then nanny comes back again to do school pick up and dinner and to be there during bath time. Her net pay is around £17 per hour. Thank you

I think it’s a balance, which is why most women do work to earn an income along side their husbands but the family still doesn’t use the same sort of childcare levels as you.
It’s not childcare from 7am-8pm or a stay at home mum, not sure why you’re painting it as two extremes?

For me that level of childcare actually wouldn’t appropriately balance finances with my children’s emotional needs, that’s just my personal preference.
We have no family help with childcare and we both work full time but I start earlier and my DH starts later and this means our children’s nursery day is 8:30-4:30 on office days and slightly less on work from home days. Two days a week they get picked up at 3 as I compress my lunch break over the week too.

I wouldn’t be a stay at home mum for the same reasons as you, I do think my children will do better with a better financial start. I don’t want just the bare minimum for them, I want lovely Christmases and holidays and they have gorgeous bedrooms, we do expensive days out and when they’re older they can do clubs and structured activities. Children dont necessarily “need” these hut it definitely helps them thrive more academically and socially. However there’s a balance and I wouldn’t work all their waking days just to provide extras financially.

Thanks, @Completelyjo. Agreed.

Getting home at 4.30pm as a private practice lawyer isn’t realistic. Is the common assumption that a couple choose that one person gives up private practice law in a couple? I am quite surprised that there is such a bad view of a mother working from
home with a nanny there at the same time so I am genuinely curious - do people expect one of the parents to change career so that they don’t need help for that many hours

There is
a) a level of martyrdom on MN where many women fall on this particular sword and particularly in law. In practice to be fair, law firms haven't traditionally been remotely receptive to WFH bar maybe a day a week.
b) it's rare that most people can afford a nanny AND have a job that means you can actively justify the cost benefit of paying someone to look after your children while you work upstairs. It's simply not the experience of most of MN where both parents are high earning and whether they can afford to or not, the ONLY way to keep their job is to put in the hours. 7pm stop is practically a half day in many legal firms and I'll bet you are logged in again as soon as the kids are in bed?

It’s not always societal expectation though- some women do actively want to be with their children as much as possible when they are small so they prioritise differently and adjust their careers, I’m not saying either is right or wrong but I resent the implication that all women are ‘forced out’. Some undoubtedly are, but some choose to put their careers on the back burner because they want to have more time at home with their children more than they want a high pressured career. As a nanny I’ve worked for a few lawyers and it’s a career that is very difficult indeed to marry up with quality family life. That goes for both mums AND dads in the industry. I’m not sure you can do things any differently and still succeed in your career in the way you want to.

For context I work for parents at the moment that were both lawyers. I nanny two days a week. The mum has had to give up that career entirely as they said no to part time and nearly all remote working. The dad still works at the firm and regularly gets in at 9pm to log straight on until the small hours. Holiday is non existent because he’s ALWAYS on email and calls. Your industry is probably never going to change.

Thanks @FanofLeaves. I appreciate that you’ve seen this play out in practice although I should flag that it is always this type of scenario that gets used as examples : the woman whose husband was in a stable position at work, probably bringing in 200k annually. So this lady could comfortably resign and not worry about the bills. I’m not in that position. My husband has been out of work for a long time and only recently got a temporary role although it’s decently paid. I would also add on that non lawyers perhaps don’t appreciate how big a decision it is to leave the law or if they move to in-house, how hard it can be to find a flex role. I flag this because I think it’s so easy for people to sit on their sofa and think they know best but there are a lot of challenges and everyone has different circumstances. All the best.

i don’t appreciate the insinuation that the other lady actively wants to be with her children (and anyone who works longer hours doesn’t)

But you have essentially admitted that you value other things. Your mark of being a good parent is being a provider. If you genuinely did want to spend lots of time with your children you would organise your life differently.

Perhaps if gender norms weren’t so entrenched your partner would have used his unemployment as a spur to consider transferring to another area and allowing you to lean into the Big Job.

If you both want to do the long hours version of the Big Job then you will need an extraordinary amount of childcare and that means extraordinary costs. However it is possible to be materially comfortable, keep a more balanced view of how much material wealth you need to set up for your children, and pursue career success that doesn’t make the demands that law does.

In fairness though OP most people don't work those kind of hours, kids or not. It is very much a choice for you both to work that much instead of spending time with your kids. Which is fine if it is what you all want, we all have different priorities.

What other lady? I’m talking about women and mothers in the workplace in general. I don’t think giving up a career you’ve worked incredibly hard to achieve is easy on anybody, nor is deciding to be financially dependent on your husband. It’s not that black and white. She’s lucky to be in a position where she can be with her children AND not be in dire financial straits for it (and indeed have paid help for part of the week) but I’m sure it wasn’t an easy decision however much she loves being at home for the children. I’m just pointing out that the industry you work in is probably never going to allow for you to easily do less hours. If you’re happy with the current set up, you want to advance in your industry, and you have a good, trustworthy nanny that will stick around then there’s not much more to be done except keep paying for it.

Tbh i know loads of lawyers and know very very few where both have remained in the private practice long hours client facing roles post kids.

In all one or other has:

• gone in house where hours are better
• gone to civil service legal where pay is much poorer but hours MUCH better and pensions valuable
• dropped to part time
• stopped entirely
• switched to academic/tutoring

You can't squeeze children into an already full life, there have to be changes.

Stick with it. These are the hard yards. Your kids will thank you for being in their own home form 3pm with a trusted professional and you in the background/at hand.
I too was at a certain career stage when my son was born which meant we needed a Nanny, 3 long days per week. Sometimes I’d have to be on a train at 7am, other weeks do an overnight in London because of a late finish.
In the years before school, we paid through the nose for the best care we could have for our son, and I would have the odd wave of feeling it was financially crazy to be handing over such a large amount of my earnings…but fast forward a decade and I don’t regret it one bit.
The financial load will lighten, but for now you are giving your children a kind and gentle alternative to you being the full time carer.
it was just over 10 years ago now, but I was paying £2,400 a month + car + gym for 3 days per week, and then preschool fees on top of that to help my son prepare for school. I do not regret a single penny of that!

@Fluufer deary me i give up. I work 9.30am - 6pm on the in office days and 9.30am until 7pm from home. Theyre not that crazy. All the best.

@Fluufer some people want to live above bare minimum and survival. It’s partially a choice but also as OP says she wants to give her kids a better future. Wish more people were striving for better.

I'm only going off what you've said and you've clearly stated that you do not work only 9.30 to 6pm. You're being disingenuous.

Thanks, @Fluufer . I have an hour and fifteen minute commute so I have to leave the house at 8am to get to my desk at nearly 9.30am on the in office days. Nanny arrives at 7.30am so I get kids ready and they then leave the house with her. I then go to work at 8am. I leave my desk at the office at 6.20pm and get home at 7.40pm so nanny is booked until 8pm.

on the at home days I start work at almost 9.30am and finish at 7.

may have been a miscommunication.

I would log back on at night if absolutely needed yes. That tends to happen one or two nights a week

Thanks @GogoGobo . It’s really interesting to hear about others’ experiences when they’ve come through the other end

And as I said, most people don't work those kind of hours. I didn't say they were "crazy", that was your language not mine.

@Fluufer ok thank you

‘as I said, most mothers aren’t working those kind of hours’ is what you meant ;)

If that was what I meant, I would have said it. You keep putting words in my mouth and I suspect you are projecting.

How come you’ve got nursery AND a nanny? Do you work unsociable hours?

OP does have a point though. No one tells male lawyers that they will never get this time back and other clearly emotive language.

I'm not responsible for what other people might say. I didn't say anything of the sort.

I don’t think that’s particularly true, I know plenty of men who have taken extended paternity leave, reduced their hours in work or chanced their work schedule in some way to accommodate having young children. It’s not that strange for fathers to want to see their kids too.