Childcare costs

[LawyerMumAsia]

Good morning. My childcare costs are through the roof. Can somebody please tell me if this is normal. We are two full time working parents with two primary aged children and one toddler. Nursery is £1700 per month and nanny is £3,300 per month including taxes for 36 hours a week. Nursery is 4 days per week but we will be reducing that to 3 days in a few weeks time. We need 36 hours because of school drop off and then nanny comes back again to do school pick up and dinner and to be there during bath time. Her net pay is around £17 per hour. Thank you

@PotteringAlonggotkickedoutandhadtoreregister thanks. Not sure it makes sense for an au pair to take three kids on the bus to nursery and then take two buses with the older kids to school and then same on the way back. Fairly tiring for all of them.

If you can afford it, but can't save, then you may just have to suck it up for a few years until your toddler is at school. Saving will have to wait, if this is the best childcare scenario for you.

We had 18 months where my salary was £17 less than childcare + fuel+ parking.

@outandunder thank you, this is helpful for perspective. It does contextualise things.

See if a childminder would be a better alternative they follow the same curriculum as a nursery, they way u would r paying twice.

I get you probably just googled that and it’s been simplified for you, because the average on Nannytax at least takes into account the salaries of housekeepers, live in nannies and au pairs in the wider London area and averages it out. I guarantee you that is NOT the going rate for a professional experienced nanny in zones 1-3 and many agencies thankfully wouldn’t touch you with a barge pole if that was all you were willing to pay. I will get on my soapbox about it as you clearly don’t know the facts.

OP I really don’t understand what you’re trying to achieve by posting? No your costs are not normal but they are to be expected for the abnormal situation you have created for yourself. Do you want to feel like you’re not being ripped off? Or for people to tell you that your set up sounds ok?

Ours have never been that high, absolute highest was when DC2 in nursery and DC1 wraparound and that was £1250/month (though we used TFC). When we had kids DH and I completely reorganised though, I changed from shift work, I reduced hours etc etc. I know it’s not possible for you right now but equally your children are young once. If there’s a way for you or DH (or both!) to be around more I’d be grabbing it with both hands.

£5k a month? Thats high but if neither you nor partner can or are willing to reduce hours and you want a nanny then it’ll be that.
Aftwr school club/ childminders are cheaper but you will need some flex in you or DP being around more.
Is it worth it? Working these hours and not seeing your kids that much, either if you??
Is there a way you can both work 4 days each? For a while?

No, it’s because I’ve employed nannies for years, both in London and the south east. And I have always paid them by their own requested rate. My current nanny is paid £17p/h gross and she is through an agency. The London Nanny Agency and South London Nannies also list their average pay as £16 p/h net.

And no, nannytax lists averages separately by role and by area of London.

The hours OP needs are going to cost far more than the average though. Always have to pay through the nose for out of hours childcare. I can't imagine it's easy to find someone to do those hours in the first place.

Sorry to hear you're having a stressful time OP. Jobs in the City can be very hours esp including a commute, in my old workplace most people use nannies if both parents were doing similar jobs to you. I ended up becoming a SAHM because the nanny was pretty much all of my wages.

I suppose it's a max of 10 more years and then you'll be able to save much more. And the years really do fly by.

This is what we paid too. In fact one nanny was in a professional job and left to become a nanny as the pay is so much better.

We're in london as well and this rate sounds about right. I think once the baby is in primary you will be able to save a bit.

Agree childcare costs in London a bloody nightmare OP. Many nurseries locally to me now getting on for £2300+ per child.

IMO you need to create a bit of flexibility in your roles to accommodate. That might be leaving the office an hour earlier, one leaving an hour later. WFH days could you do the pick ups from school? Then you could maybe have the nanny ~50h and cut the nursery entirely.

lucky you, but you should know that you are not paying the proper going rate. Perhaps your nannies are not particularly experienced, are young or you offer very desirable hours. You have also stated that the LNA list the average pay as £16 hour net, which sounds correct- but in your previous post you said £17 gross was acceptable?

If it’s a good nanny who you trust, is flexible and gives your peace of mind - it’s worth it. Once youngest is out of nursery you’ll drop down to only nanny costs.

We couldn’t save whilst we had a nanny either.

could you move to a preschool for youngest in time (maybe around 3) so nanny collects all three a bit earlier? Here preschools are much cheaper than nursery.

also OP, i do dinner, bath, bed, homework etc three nights a week and then log in from 8pm and work until midnight ish. Could you manage that some nights a week if not all? Even just one night as a start might help, especially if your husband can do one too. Finishing at 7 is really hard to get good time with the children.

@Sleepygrumpyandnothappy I am at home ALL day 3 days per week working in a room that has an unlocked door that my children pile into after school. Yes the nanny is at home too. How have I created such an ‘abnormal’ situation for myself. Would you say a hairdresser who works on a Saturday instead of being at the park with her child is abnormal? Mumsnet is a funny old place. No you can’t keep your foot in with your career if it’s the sort of job that requires long hours. No you can’t rely on your husband financially, you need to work. No you can’t have a job that is not flexible.

What I was trying to achieve from
this post (possibly not very clearly) was to see how I could reduce the costs/possibly consider alternative routes for childcare - to ask how others manage things. I got that, re after school clubs/childminders/more flexible hours/ trying to adjust things to create more flexibility in the week.

This thread has been useful for me overall.

Thanks, @OuiLaLa yes this is definitely an option. It’s rather miserable working until midnight but I agree that it’s a way to manage things to reduce outgoings

@MidnightPatrol yes agree thank you. I may look at reducing nursery to two days per week and having the nanny leave earlier each evening yes

@Fluufer it’s been incredibly easy to find people to do those hours as nannyhood is a career path that involves kids’ schedules. Most nannies know that taking kids to school and then coming back again for school pick up and staying until dinner and bath
most days is pretty standard nanny duties. Our nanny has two early starts a week. Not so bad

You’re right. It’s so important to think long term. I think holding on to the job and riding it out is probably not a bad idea as I will probably be earning more in the future. Alternatively if I drop out now for a few years it will be hard to catch up to where I was

@Didimum

you probably can, if you want someone young, with no experience, who is still living at home, but if you want someone that's an actual adult, with experience, safe to drive 3 kids around London, you need to not cheap out on a nanny.

I know people regularly forget, but nannies have mortgage, rent bills & need to eat too. It's their job, not a hobby!!

😂 you haven't got a clue!

@Fluufer Long hours are the norm for Nannies to cover parents commute, 7/8 pm is definitely not 'out of hours' work for a nanny. it's hard to find a nanny who can afford to do only wrap around care, as it's much less money to live on & though possible, not easy to find supplementary work that fits in and is term time only.

Not a single one, having exploited Nannies doesn't make someone the font of knowledge they think they are.