Childcare costs

[LawyerMumAsia]

Good morning. My childcare costs are through the roof. Can somebody please tell me if this is normal. We are two full time working parents with two primary aged children and one toddler. Nursery is £1700 per month and nanny is £3,300 per month including taxes for 36 hours a week. Nursery is 4 days per week but we will be reducing that to 3 days in a few weeks time. We need 36 hours because of school drop off and then nanny comes back again to do school pick up and dinner and to be there during bath time. Her net pay is around £17 per hour. Thank you

We are in London and dcs are in a prep school, and it's fairly common for families to have this arrangement. Although only a couple of families have more than 2 dc, most have only 1 or 2.

One thing that is making things more difficult for you is your location relative to work and school/nursery. We live within 20 mins walking distance to work and 5 min walk to school/15 min walk to nursery. We deliberately chose our location as it makes our family life easier - we just couldn't face bus or tube journeys with young dcs in the mornings. Obviously not everyone has the finances to be able to buy somewhere close to work or good schools, but it sounds like that isn't an issue for you.

@LawyerMumAsia

cutting down your nanny's hours might make the job unviable for her, its difficult to live on wrap around care hours, so if you have a good nanny & want to keep her, discuss the options with her before making final decisions, or you risk the cost & hassle of finding a new one.

@LawyerMumAsia

yes, I agree, also there's your pension & NI contributions to consider too.

cutting back your nanny costs might not be to your benefit either if you're burning yourself out & not performing your job to the best you otherwise could.

in your position, I'd keep your nanny, if she's happy to only get paid for wrap around hours (I'm usually paid the full day (I potter about the house (sort kids bedrooms, laundry, empty the dishwasher, tidy up after breakfast/ morning chaos) there to let the plumber in, be home for the online grocery delivery etc walk the dog, I'm free to go do my own thing, but be on stand by if any of the children need collecting from from school or are off school,)

id be prioritising sanity over savings.

then consider any amount you can put into savings when the kids are so little to be a complete bonus.

One thing I have gathered from this thread is that it’s more socially acceptable to drop your kids off when it’s still dark out for breakfast club and to pick them up exhausted and tired from after school club when it’s dark out (in the winter) than to have a qualified childcare professional bring them home at 3pm and take care of them until 7pm whilst mum is in another room on calls working. It’s not quite as awful what I’m doing as some are making out. In any case lots of useful things have come out of this thread and I’m very grateful for all the tips. I particularly liked hearing of people’s experiences of doing the same when the kids were small and coming out of it the other end able to save more when kids leave nursery. It really helps to think long term.

OP most people don't use any form of childcare until 7 or 8pm. You don't need to put other parents down to defend your own choices either. Most people don't have nanny kind of money so they simply can't work those hours in the first place.

I ran an au pair agency pre Covid. An au pair within your perimeters would be reasonably easy to get. Avoid French Au Pairs and try to get an older girl from Spain or Portugal.

The child is still without it's parents... You aren't doing anything "better".

You’re right. It’s so important to think long term. I think holding on to the job and riding it out is probably not a bad idea as I will probably be earning more in the future. Alternatively if I drop out now for a few years it will be hard to catch up to where I was

This has been my experience. My DC are 13 and 16 now (Y8 and Y11). When they were babies, I worked 3 days a week; when the youngest started school, 4 days, and now I compress full time hours into 4 days. By staying in work I've kept up my NI and pension contributions, professional skills and professional registration, solve had the agility to apply for opportunities when they arose at times that my family and I were ready to move on.

I have no doubt that paying nursery fees for 2 for 18 months made no short term economic stave, but over the longer term, I'm 2 grades higher that I was 10 years ago, and have doubled my salary. I'm also on our standby rota.

We only ever used nursery. I'm in a profession that doesn't expect the massive hours that law/finance too, and am employed by a public body that has championed flexible working for 25 years. My only constraint has been early starts (civil engineer, site hours often start at 8 am) but these were much easier for dh and I to muddle through than late finishes.

@LawyerMumAsia you are not being unreasonable. It’s really hard. Also I bet you are having to add the mental logistics of any possible change to your already crammed mental load. I really hope that works picks up and you build up some goodwill/ get a permanent contract that affords you a bit more flex, I know how valuable that is.

We will be in a similar situation once our child starts primary and at the moment are planning on using after school clubs for the days we both need to be in the office however I do have the luxury of working 8-4 those days so even with a commute can get back reasonable hours.

I don’t really have any advice but would choose the option that gives you the most breathing space, reliability and flexibility (which I think would mean keeping the nanny?). You/ your partners earnings could increase quite rapidly over the next few years presumably so you can catch up on savings.

I work in the City and there were a number of years when I basically made no money by going to work, it all went on childcare and commuting costs. Plus it was stressful to manage a full time role and the mum guilt.

We used nursery 3 days ago week and then did a combination of flexing hours, taking turns wfh and grandparents. We also found a wonderful childminder who'd collect from school and we'd pick up from hers at 6.30.

It's incredibly difficult to juggle a full-time, high pressure role and childcare un this country. But it's only for a few years and then it gets better

Thanks, @Fluufer you’re right and I take back my earlier comment.

@BillyNoProblems i can’t tell you how appreciative I am to hear these kind of experiences as I don’t have many examples of people doing what I do in real life. So thank you. Yes I am definitely going to try to rearrange things so that I can have more flex. For now I’m going to keep the wrap around care but once I get more stability in my role I will definitely adjust things

@NWnature thank you, you’re absolutely right. I have stayed in full time work throughout three births, and had short maternity leaves as I wasn’t in the uk when they were born - I am now at a stage where I can probably earn ok for a part time job but it’s finding that unicorn of a part time job that is the hard thing. Thanks again - really solid advice

(Reason I mentioned that I have stayed in full time work is to say that having put blood sweat and tears in, it would be a shame to press pause and have a few years out - I think the ideal is to stay in the door but have a more flexible role). Interviewing is tough- need some skin thickener if anyone is selling!!

That your kids' school is a drive away tells me you've gone private. In which case... I don't know what you want people to say. You've chosen a particular lifestyle with very high costs. These are the consequences. You can cut back and make changes, or you can live with it.

Just to reassure you that being home after school in their own environment is a really great thing for kids. Afterschool clubs are great and an amazing resource but if you can manage to get them home after school, then it does make a difference I think. Yes with a parent might be better but if that’s not possible, home to play with their own toys, in your own house and dinner at a time that suits Them is really great. They can do play dates at home or stop in the park or just curl up on the sofa and watch tv. My kids have had this and it’s been fabulous for them. Bonus if you work from home sometimes and can pop in for an hour if you have a cancelled meeting or let the nanny go home early if you finish up sooner than expected. And a trusted nanny is a great thing so penny pinching just to save a couple of £££ doesn’t make sense (unless you really have to obviously!) as it can back fire badly.

Why don't you take in an aupair? It's cheap in comparaison and with the right person you could make a friend for life. I would get one from a scandinavian country where gentle parenting has been the norm for a long time.

OP has already explained that the hours she requires, and all the differing needs of 3 small children, is too much for an au pair. Generally an au pair is supposed to learn English whilst pitching in with a bit of childcare, not work a 50 hour week and be solely responsible for multiple children. Like a mutually beneficial cultural experience for a bit of pocket money, not slave labour.

I was an aupair a long time ago and I used to drive all children to school and activities. So did everyone else. I think it's your best option, you just need to find the right one.

I had a baby, 2 year old and 4 year old without a problem at 19. Could not do that today at 45.. you have so much energy when you're young. And I loved it but then I love kids in general. It also made me feel really grown up. Perfect gap year before going to uni.

You remember that Brexit thing?

1. A Scandinavian person no longer has the legal right to work in the UK.
2. "Pocket money" arrangements are now illegal. "Au pairs" are entitled to a minimum of the legal minimum wage, minus a small amount for accommodation.

There is no longer any such thing as an au pair. There are only live-in nannies who already have a UK RTW.

Times have changed- this was a long time ago, pre Brexit. Au pairs aren’t even allowed to be responsible for babies.

Probably not helpful as your circumstances sound very particular but, for reference here's what we do with 2 full time demanding roles. We have a toddler and a primary aged kid.

Primary kid:
I WFH x3 each week. He is at home with me in the morning and I take him to school for 8:45am then rush back and log on.
On my office days I need to be out by 7:30am for commute. He does breakfast club those days 7:30-8;50.
He does after school club 3:15-6pm most days (GPs do pick up once). I try to collect at 5:30 where my schedule allows though, and he comes home and chills whilst i finish emails or meetings.
Monthly fees are around £250ish

Toddler:
Nursery based pre-school - 7:30-6pm.
Don't qualify for 30hrs funded, but get the universal 15hrs now he's turned 3. Monthly bill is around £1,100-1,200.

I know you said kids didn't like after school club, but it'd make a big dent in those costs if they went instead of Nanny. My child now sees ASC as an extended play date and he's made lots of friends with kids in other year groups as a result.

Thanks @DreadPirateRobots nope not private. It’s a faith school but state.

Fair enough - although it comes to the same thing in a lot of ways, though at least it isn't an additional cost. You have chosen a school which has added a degree of complication and difficulty to your lives and has meant more complex and expensive childcare arrangements, and you had your reasons, no doubt, but it is an active choice you have made. Btw, there is no evidence base for homework in primary so your kids can just... not do it if that's a significant issue. I'm surprised at a state primary setting daily homework anyway.