To wonder if you are against private schools…

[Unsrr]

Why is this? As in against their existence?

I was brought up in a reasonably poor area and my education was not good. I sometimes went to the nearest private school for swimming lessons and remember being in awe of it. We have one dc now age 7 and can’t afford private but there is maybe a chance we could for secondary. I wouldn’t give it a second thought if we could make it work.

I have never felt private schools should disappear because surely that’s what we should be aspiring to? An education that is excellent (yes I know not all private schools are good and lots of state schools are better), isn’t that what we should aim for?

I feel sad that this country has now made it harder to access this education. What is the reason people are against private schools existing at all? I don’t think it can be jealousy, I think many people are genuinely opposed to it from an ideological perspective and I can’t understand it at all. Just interested really as there’s been so much talk about schools recently.

This is true when you look at an individual level. On a societal level, private schools create so much inequality

Always makes me laugh when the "we could have afforded Private but didn't" and the "my kids did very well at State" crowd always chuck in how their State school was excellent.
I have yet to see someone who could easily afford Private send their DC to a failing State school just because of their principles and if a Parent DID do that then I would be seriously judging them.
I really wish that people who want to ban Private schools would acknowledge that some State schools really aren't fit for purpose and given that why the hell would I send my child there when I can pay for an alternative?
ALL kids deserve a good education but as long as the only way I can get that is to move house or pay for it then thats what I will do

The state school to which we sent DS is average. It was chosen because it’s the closest school geographically, and schooldays are long enough without adding in a trek across the city on frequently unreliable buses.

You can believe what you like but I would never have put a child of mine into private education

I don't like them.

I'm a primary school teacher in the state sector, but in the holidays I work for a holiday scheme provider that is based in private schools. I get to nosy around them, look at displays, and sometimes even have a flick through the children's books. And honestly, they're not doing anything better, or different, than the same kids in state schools are doing. Or certainly not at the primary school age.

I think a lot of parents do the private school thing with a view to "buying into" a certain social demographic. Buying their children entry into a higher social class than they themselves were born into. In the private schools I visit (spread across the midlands and north London), the children are, I'd guess 75% and up, the children of second and third generation immigrants. Very, very few seem to be white British.

Everything creates inequality. Do you think that doing away with Private Schools would change that?

Not all schools are equal, even in state level so what do you do with those?

Ending Private Schools isn’t going to make your local comp any better.

Or are private schools/private tuition

a result of
inequality ?

FGS.

What else? Private health, luxury cars, LV totes, long haul holidays…

Give me strength.

Don’t you get it? The teaching is the same. The teaching is no different. What is massively different is the lack of disruption. Being able to learn in a calm, safe environment. This is the absolute basics of schooling that so many state schools fail to provide.

Our private school has a much higher proportion of what used to be known as Asperger’s than the local state school for a number of reasons.

These kids are bright and very easily pass the entrance exam,
They need a calm environment to thrive so their parents are happy to pay for that.

Their parents are likely to have Asperger’s too and are likely to be in high paying (ie tech) jobs as a result and can afford the fees.

Not all SEN students are disruptive. SEN students are certainly not rejected from private schools.

I would have been happy with average
I can see my kids Private school from the bottom of my road, its the closest Secondary school of any type to us.
I do take your point though, I have no idea why a parent with a good or even average State school thats nearby would spend loads of money and time sending their DC to a Private school miles away, people do though

No, capitalism creates inequality.

If people are allowed to own resources and are allowed to raise their children individually (rather than all being removed at birth to be raised communally in state children's homes) then people are going to use their resources to invest in their children's future. You cannot erase that by attacking opportunities that cost money to offer to children. All you can do is make the state funding for universal education be so good that the expensive options simply aren't worth it. Even then, the wealthy will still do what they can to ensure their descendants thrive - it's ridiculous to think anyone (ok apart from narcissists and psychopaths) would choose not to prioritise their children's best interests over the interests of other children. Life exists on this planet because of an overwhelming drive to breed and gain and control resources to ensure that ones offspring will be the best able to survive, since long before some mammals evolved to become humans. That's not an urge that can be switched off.

I would like to know the numbers for teacher turnover.

State vs private.

Now that would be interesting…

The teaching is the same. The teaching is no different. What is massively different is the lack of disruption

People clearly have no idea about the state of state education after 14 years of underfunding and neglect if they think the only difference between private and state is behaviour. What do you think the extra tens of thousands of pounds are paying for?

In my experience, certainly money couldn’t solve the issues. By only focusing on money, actually preventing real effort to be diverted into what matters more to make a real change. Obviously there are better state schools with more aspiring management, but one wouldn’t know till in the school, and wouldn’t know the details without attending PTA meetings etc. by that time, would be too late, not everyone can afford to change home several times to get the school right.

I have every idea about state schooling as I had to remove my child from the terrible state school they attended and move them to private school. The teaching is the same, it’s just that instead of 45 mins of teaching and 15 mins of behaviour management the teacher does an hour of teaching. The children respect the teacher and their fellow pupils. No one beats my child up on a daily basis, and so school refusal and self harming are a thing of the past. I pay £20k a year for that.

Things that are a nice add on:

dyslexia support
sports clubs / music / drama

Things that are totally and utterly meaningless:

”Contacts”. What even is that?

From what I can see it is being used to educate SEN pupils who simply cannot get on in a large chaotic state school. People we know who have opted for private are kids with ADD/ADHD and dyslexia. Our grammar area does not support these and class sizes are often too big for them to be able to concentrate. Grammar schools get worse results than the private non-selective schools, so the parents feel safer that their kid can achieve what they are capable of without the social stressors and dynamics of eating disorders and disproportionate stress in the grammar system, let alone the state sink schools that are the only other option.

Help me out on the SENd side of it, please. Genuinely.

I’ve worked in and around specialist education for about a decade now, and my understanding of the funding system has always been that the LA funds placements that meet the needs of SENd children, and if that place doesn’t meet need then they’re moved somewhere that can, and that’s also funded. The placements team would consult for a new placement, and that would be LA funded.

Am I right to assume that sometimes the LA say somewhere they’re using government funds for meets need, but parents believe they’re wrong so pay for somewhere else themselves?

My stepsons SENd school is also dangerously close to not being able to meet his needs - the LA would have to solve that with a different, better suited placement.

I genuinely don’t understand why people are paying for specialist placements.

I don’t send my ASd child to a specialist placement. They are at a mainstream private. The difference between mainstream private and state school is the calm. The lack of chaos. They couldn’t cope with the constant tension of “is pupil x going to start throwing things around the room etc”. Private school calm allows them to cope. Now I could have probably fought to get a council place in a specialist school, but the impression I get is that lots of SEN specialist schools aren’t designed for highly academic children and so would not suit my child.

So we skipped the fight with the council and stumped up the fees for private. Like lots and lots of other SEN parents.

As per pp - a lot of state schools may say they can handle ASD or dyslexia, but if you only have the space and teachers to cram all special needs kids together they will not be at the same level or have the same needs. For high functioning ASD/ADD and dyslexics putting them in with louder SEN needs can be alarming and counter productive, especially if they use violence or bullying. The whole state SEN system needs a massive overhaul and they need to make sure grammar areas are not simply enabling a 2 tier system, 3 if you count private.

assessments can take years, many local SEN authorities won’t accept a private assessment. Make up every excuse and delay so that years pass before can get an ehcp even if child disability a confirmed medical diagnosis.

Local SEN at council likes to decide what child needs which seems to be exactly what every other SEN child needs.

often local education people (do question their qualifications …) turn the SEN into parenting “needs”

I'm against private health care and education.I'd rather they were abolished but having to pay VAT is a start.

Thanks @Blaggoshpereish , @PanicAttax & @Singinginthespring.

That makes sense. To be honest professionally I have largely dealt with SEMH/ behaviour that wouldn’t be suitable for mainstream private - they’re the kids that yours sound like they need to avoid, definitely not calm.

And I’d guess in my personal situation, my stepson is too high need for mainstream anything, private or otherwise. Functions at too low a level, if you will. His school would be one of those you refer to - it doesn’t cater for high functioning, academic children.

As I said, my confusion was around why parents would pay for something that is funded at a pretty high level by the local authority, but can see that if isn’t available or isn’t suitable, then you’d find the money (if you could).

Most kids with SEN have zero involvement and zero funding from the council, schools are supposed to fund the vast majority of SEN support themselves. There seems to be a misconception that a diagnosis of SEN brings extra funding to a school. It brings nothing. An EHCP can bring extra funding to a school, but they are only awarded to those with the most severe needs, and that's after a long application period, a denial, and an appeal.

And yet you still seem to think that the teaching at a state school and a private school will be the same.

Look at the teacher trainee recruitment figures below. They have been massively below target for years. What do you think this looks like on the ground?

In state schools there are many, many classes that don't have a permanent, qualified teacher. They will have an adult in the room for safeguarding reasons, but that doesn't mean it is someone who knows the class or the subject, or who is even a qualified teacher. It may be a different adult every week. This may even be for exam classes who are basically left to teach themselves the syllabus. At A-level there is a box on the UCAS form for extenuating circumstances where you can write, and I have had to write, that a student did not have a teacher for a significant proportion of the course and had to teach themselves. This is not unusual.

I would strongly, strongly doubt that this is the case in private schools, because if it is, what are the parents paying for?

It's a good question. I mean...I went to our local private school on scholarship from 11yrs old. When our daughter went to the same school's sixth form on a scholarship, and we went to the parents' evening...our first appointment was with her classics teacher.

I was in his first ever lesson at the school, some 20+ years earlier. Still there, now the head of department. I still recognised about half of the teachers there, and they still knew my name.

Talking to my friends who'd been to local schools and now have children there...there aren't any teachers left from when they attended.

Totally anecdotal, of course, but it vaguely points in the direction of an answer.