To wonder if you are against private schools…

[Unsrr]

Why is this? As in against their existence?

I was brought up in a reasonably poor area and my education was not good. I sometimes went to the nearest private school for swimming lessons and remember being in awe of it. We have one dc now age 7 and can’t afford private but there is maybe a chance we could for secondary. I wouldn’t give it a second thought if we could make it work.

I have never felt private schools should disappear because surely that’s what we should be aspiring to? An education that is excellent (yes I know not all private schools are good and lots of state schools are better), isn’t that what we should aim for?

I feel sad that this country has now made it harder to access this education. What is the reason people are against private schools existing at all? I don’t think it can be jealousy, I think many people are genuinely opposed to it from an ideological perspective and I can’t understand it at all. Just interested really as there’s been so much talk about schools recently.

Most people cannot afford to whip their child out for private. Most people are speaking from their own circumstances rather than on principle. I would rather my child attend a state school for many reasons, and am fortunate they do (did) attend a good state school, but that’s not without sacrifices for me. If you’ve got 2 DC in school whipping them out for private isn’t an option for the vast majority.

Because the world is egalitarian and life is fair you mean?

I've taught in numerous schools of various kinds. In all of them, like flocks to like. Even if there is a demographically diverse catchment, in a year group of 250, most kids stick to the same small group of a dozen or so that they would actually have an awareness of their background. This idea that all state schools are representative of the diversity of "real" world is nonsense. The one I pulled my kids out of was over 95% white British for a start. The head used to send letters home reminding parents that racist language is easily picked up by kids and could they please stop using it.
The one they are at now has boarders from all over the world. Some have come from war zones. Lots of charities place kids here and they model incredible drive and commitment. They are not loaded by any stretch. There are some placed by UK charities who support kids from difficult backgrounds. They board and find stability and security. It's a very small school so most of the kids know everyone in their year group, rather than about 10-15 % of them. There is not one "real" world and bring in the same assembly hall with over 1000 other kids doesn't somehow make you super aware.

Kids generally have to be very bright as well as have rich parents to get into private schools, as well as places being limited.

An enormous generalisation.

They really don’t. There are non-selective schools full of kids whose only qualification is that their parents can pay the fees.

Correct.

The local private girls school here has very similar results to the girls state school that my own and most of the girls we know go to pretty much anyone that can pay can go to the private. It is smaller and prettier and undoubtedly “gentler”. It’s for the daughters of very wealthy families and those whose daughters have struggled at the state school due to social / emotional issues. Dd moans about wanting to go as their food and trips are better and her best mate goes there but tough luck!

I think Micheala is a state school, but with very firm boundaries which parents and children have to sign up to before being admitted.

Yes, absolutely, schools have so many hats on - social worker, behaviour management, counsellor, that 'teacher' doesn't always come first.

I don't think it's always about funding though. My youngests infant school has lower funding due to being undersubscribed, but has brilliant behaviour and fantastic teaching and achievement. Parental engagement is really high, and that makes the biggest difference.

Not near where I live. Every single one requires children to pass an 11-plus style test plus an assessment interview.

Could you name a couple of them please? I’m curious.

Head to the Good schools guide and you will find many non-selective schools. We have visited many for our two DC. Some are really geared on those children with SEN, others offer and all-round education which isn’t dependent on ability. Of course, there are also many private hot houses too - horses for courses.

Kingsley

My DD has friends at another local private school. It does claim to have assessments but none of her friends there got decent GCSE results (worse than the top set at the local comp which she attended) & I have never heard of a child being turned down there. In fact in August they were still advertising on the bus stops that they had places available for a Sept start.

I think you’re confused. The ‘test’ at non-selective schools isn’t an ‘entrance exam’, it’s just an assessment to see where kids are academically, ditto the interview, which is to scope out the child, the family, potential behavioural issues etc. Because parents prepared to pay substantial fees like to think (as seen on this thread) that they’re paying for some form of exclusiveness, academic or social, or for their child not to be in a class with children with significant SEN or whose English isn’t fluent.

They don't 'like to think it'. They are.

I am not naming it but my DC's Private school is non selective and interestingly gets the same A level results as the 2 closest Grammars
There is another Private school we considered around 20 minutes away and that is also non selective.
They do some very minor tests on their Taster Day and if they then end up there the tests are used to assess them along with their SATs results.

I am going to assume that not everyone lives where you live

But it’s not phrased by the school as bluntly as ‘Look, we’ll take children as academically substandard as we think we can get away with (because you’d be sending yours to Selective School X if they had a hope of getting in) while ruling out most SEN, but will guarantee little Ginevra won’t be sitting next to the daughter of the local drugs kingpin or start dropping her hs.’

This is also a fair point.

I was genuinely amazed when I heard that some people actually believe kids at private schools are cleverer than those at state schools....

From my own experience, it really isn't the case. There were plenty of kids who weren't particularly bright...the test to get in was a bit of window dressing imo. I'm sure theyre not all like that though. However I imagine as fees become more unaffordable, schools will become even less fussy as to who they take.

Most people can see pros and cons to private schools. In both types of schools you can end up with bubbles - people who simply can't empathise with the other. Personally I agree that we should be mirroring what these schools get right rather than dragging them down. It makes no sense not to use the data of their successes to benefit mainstream schools. The main issue isn't even money but they attract parents and pupils who understand education is key to a good job and options throughout life. Of course the majority of state school parents understand this too (I'm not suggesting otherwise) but the larger % of kids from families where school is just something to fight through before you are "free" with no intention of working with skill or being particularly aware of other people, means their impact is more negative to the whole in state settings. Parents at these schools are well aware of the families and would also avoid them if they could.

What would really help is identifying these families in early years and working holistically with them. Ironically these families need smaller class sizes most so their kids can get more of a social education from the school setting to over ride the negative impacts from their families' social conditioning.

Well that’s clearly bullshit. Oh no they don’t. Very few are actually that academically selective - even then I’d question how ‘selective’ they really are…
you pay, you get in. As people in VAT threads keep reminding everyone, not all schools are Eton and Harrow…

The people who believe this are generally the ones paying for their child to go to school, in my experience, even though their children clearly are not any more or less brighter than most of their peers. Min fact a couple have SEN issues so the opposite could be argued, if we’re judging by conventional standards…

But what actual difference does it make to your life? Your kids did great in state, that's wonderful. But on a day to day level, what would you actually achieve in your own life by banning private education?

The contempt should be directed to the government, not private school parents.

And I don't believe for a minute that if your child is in a class of 30 in a poor performing state school, that you wouldn't for a minute put that child in private, if you had the means to do so. I don't believe that at all, if the choice was there.

Why wouldn't you want your child to have the best possible education, access to the best facilities, music, drama, art, languages, trips etc.

I am so grateful and thankful that my DC attend the school I used to go past as a child, looking at it in awe, because I went to state. The fact that I can put my DC in that school is one of my greatest achievements and no-one can take that away from me.